Northern: ticket acceptance

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Starmill, 13 Sep 2019.

  1. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    I am currently at Stockport. I am travelling to Milton Keynes Central via Crewe.

    I have a ticket that is valid only on Northern services from here to Crewe. There is currently no Northern train running in that direction due to a major fault.

    I have asked the station staff if Virgin Trains are accepting tickets. They've said there's currently no ticket acceptance in place for Northern except with TransPennine Express, and that is only available between Manchester and Manchester Airport. There is a VT service going to Crewe which would see me arriving on time.

    TfW passengers are allowed to board the VT service to Crewe and change there. But Northern passengers are not. Why not?
     
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  3. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/disruption/details/EF28EB1E948D44F2BDE7EB68248FDEA7

    The information on National Rail Enquiries is the same as I've been provided with the station staff.
     
  4. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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  5. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    How do you know that?
    To wait for the next Northern service to Crewe.

    This will be at 1214, but this service is currently 'Delayed'.
     
  6. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    I've tried to get some information out of Northern on Twitter, but they've not replied to my message after more than an hour.
    https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1172450226692452353?s=19

    At least I can enjoy Roald Dahl Day while I am sitting waiting at Stockport.
     
  7. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    This train is now cancelled.
     
  8. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    I've been here over an hour now and there have been many announcements saying what Transport for Wales and Virgin Trains passengers should do, and there is ticket acceptance in place for this. But in all the time I've been sat here there hasn't been a single announcement for the benefit of Northern passengers on the route. Why do Virgin Trains make announcements for the benefit of their own customers and TfW's, but not Northern's?
     
  9. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    Probably because Northern have not put any plans in place for their passengers.
     
  10. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    It may be because Northern haven’t arranged anything so far
     
  11. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    Sadly, Northern asked the 1201 Manchester - Crewe to skip Levenshulme - Stockport (3 stations), causing the "cancelled" train at Stockport

    I am concerned that Northern may reject OP's delay repay application on the ground that OP could have travelled on the 1151 service to Alderly Edge (arr 1208) then change for 1231 service to Crewe (arr 1258), despite no announcement were made at Stockport Station. (Though OP can appeal the rejection)

    I would suggest OP to take the 1251 service to Alderly Edge and wait for the train to Crewe at that station
    They have arranged something, that's requesting the 1201 service to skip Stockport
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2019
  12. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    I am now on the move.

    Really poor the length of time I was asked to spend just sat there allowing other trains to leave that ticket acceptance wasn't arranged for. The lack of information at the station and on Twitter isn't good enough.

    Passengers need stronger rights in this area.
     
  13. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Which isn't arranging a damn thing for people stuck at Stockport.
     
  14. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    I think Northern just thought that passengers would be "smart" enough to take a train to Alderley Edge to wait for trains from Manchester Airport branch.
    Come on Northern, that's not how things should work. Almost no one would take a train for a couple of stations and wait for the next one unless they are being told to do so.
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Knowing what I know about VT's policy on fares (i.e. their non-litigious approach), I would just board a VT, and if the guard didn't accept the ticket pay the fare requested and pursue Northern for a refund of it later.
     
  16. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    I doubt Northern would payout as they don't have a ticket acceptance agreement agreed before.
    Of course, the ticket be sold onboard from Virgin Trains (if you lucky enough to be approached by train guard) would be Anytime Single, without railcard discount (Around £10.40 [VT only]- £13.20 [All TOCs])
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I think they would on the basis that the alternative was going to be a full Delay Repay refund of the whole combination of tickets including the one to Euston (the delay being over an hour).
     
  18. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    Obviously this is fine if:
    - You don't have any short-term liquidity issues
    - You're confident in your evidence, your capability and your interpretation of the conditions to take Northern to the County Court if (when) they refuse to pay the bill you send them

    If not, I'd avoid this course of action.
     
    Last edited: 14 Sep 2019
  19. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Northern are crap during disruption. I've had to call their customer service centre for stranded passengers before to get them to sort it out.

    It's quite rare for them to proactively seek ticket acceptance.
     
  20. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    To conclude what happened, I did manage to finally get to Crewe. When I arrived I took my tickets to the station staff and asked them how I could continue my journey. They directed me to the next train on platform 7, so I went and took a seat.

    When the guard came through to check tickets shortly after departure, I handed them all over and explained what had happened. The guard said that as I was travelling with Advance tickets, they were valid only on the booked train, and that I had missed my booked train. I tried to explain that I had asked the staff at Crewe what to, and taken the train from platform 7 as they'd said, but the guard said that the ticket wasn't valid regardless. They added that if I had booked one ticket rather than two that they would have been willing to accept it on a later train where delays had occurred earlier in the journey. I didn't engage on this point, and thanked the guard for their advice. They then said that they would let me off 'just this once'.

    I received a message from Northern on Twitter shortly before arriving in Milton Keynes. They said they hoped that I had got underway.
     
  21. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    If VT had charged £13.20, that would have been more than the price I originally paid for my journey, so this would not really work.

    You also can't exclude the risk that VT might have changed their internal policy, and they make a report for prosecution in the first instance. This has been known on XC and GWR on quite a number of recent cases.

    I have of course made a complaint about the way in which this disruption was handled by Northern. I don't have such high hopes for the response.
     
  22. hkstudent

    hkstudent Member

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    I am afraid that the guard have said the wrong thing.
    Acoording to NRCOT (National Rail Condition of Travel), split ticketing still composite one journey. So, no matter how many tickets are split (given that minimum connection requirement is met, if change of trains is requires), you should be still be protected for delays, entitle you to take the next same TOC departure.
    The staff maybe unaware of the split ticketing rule
     
  23. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes there is no doubting the Guard was wrong.
    If the Guard was unaware of NRCoT Condition 10 then they shouldn't be making things up. Yet some do. There are insufficient safeguards in place to prevent breaches of contract and consumer laws by railway staff, consequently a small minority get away with bringing their company, grade, and even the entire industry into disrepute.
     

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