Northern ticket vending machines - covert cameras.

lyndhurst25

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Not sure if this has been discussed before. Using a recently installed Northern TVM, I noticed that it has what appears to be a pair of cameras installed. The lenses are visible behind the two small square windows, above the credit card keypad. One of the lenses is looking straight forwards and the other is angled towards the centre of the machine. I was wondering what the purpose of these is, what images are recorded and how the information is used by Northern.

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bearhugger

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No they’re not looking down on the pin machine. To me, one appea s to be pointing at an angle across the screen so it would get a view of whoever is stood at the machine getting a ticket. The other one seems to point straight out from the machine. I’m fairly sure the machine that was installed at Marton station didn’t have these cameras in when it was originally installed but appeared a couple of weeks later.
 

158752

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The purpose of the cameras is nothing sinister. The machines much like those on South Western Railway are capable of working with the aid of a remote operator who can assist passengers during ticket purchasing and information provision. As such the cameras are there for that purpose only.



Northern however aren't using the function yet.
 

Llandudno

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Is there a requirement for a notice to be posted on the TVM advising the public that there are cameras in operation?
 

WelshBluebird

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Is there a requirement for a notice to be posted on the TVM advising the public that there are cameras in operation?
Most stations have some kind of CCTV. Do they need notices around for those cameras? And if so would the notices already around for CCTV be enough to cover the TVM cameras too?
 

route101

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One thing about TVMs is as there often left unattened, must be easy for a fraudster to rig the contactless pad or pin pad.
 

bearhugger

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The purpose of the cameras is nothing sinister. The machines much like those on South Western Railway are capable of working with the aid of a remote operator who can assist passengers during ticket purchasing and information provision. As such the camera's are there for that purpose only.



Northern however aren't using the function yet.
Hmm, so there must be a microphone & speakers somewhere on the TVM then for video calling? Will have to have a closer look next time i pass one.
 

py_megapixel

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Hmm, so there must be a microphone & speakers somewhere on the TVM then for video calling? Will have to have a closer look next time i pass one.
Looking at OP's photo, I think I can see the speaker (which presumably also has a mic behind that grille) which I've highlighted in green, and the call button, which I've highlighted in grey.
1593434831901.png
 

Rob_76

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Could be useful for identifying vandals too, particularly in unstaffed outlying stations.

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Using a recently installed Northern TVM, I noticed that it has what appears to be a pair of cameras installed. The lenses are visible behind the two small square windows, above the credit card keypad. One of the lenses is looking straight forwards and the other is angled towards the centre of the machine. I was wondering what the purpose of these is, what images are recorded and how the information is used by Northern.

View attachment 80137
 

scrapy

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I doubt the camera functions unless the virtual ticket office function is in use. If the images are stored then it may be that any legal notice comes up on the screen, however it may be just a direct video link that isn't recorded. In which case I don't think they need notices for the data protection as no data is stored. (I may be wrong on this)
 

causton

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S&B have cameras on their newer machines, and lots have speakers and microphones. This is usually for the provision of remote assistance (e.g. Greater Anglia and WMT use this), although I don't think the cameras are used.
 

TUC

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As said,like every cash machine has. What's the problem? It prevents fraud and theft. No one can object to that.
 

northernman

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Hi, as mentioned the camera is for a video assist feature we are looking at. They are not operational currently. When we do switch that feature on, there will be some branding/statement about it
 

fgwrich

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Hi, as mentioned the camera is for a video assist feature we are looking at. They are not operational currently. When we do switch that feature on, there will be some branding/statement about it
They can be quite a clever and helpful system, so it's good to see it slowly being rolled around the network. A Ticket Machine and Help point in one!
 

lyndhurst25

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Hi, as mentioned the camera is for a video assist feature we are looking at. They are not operational currently. When we do switch that feature on, there will be some branding/statement about it
Interesting. Is the video element just a bit gimmicky though? Apart from lip–reading passengers, I don't see the advantage over just an audio link.
 

Starmill

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As said,like every cash machine has. What's the problem? It prevents fraud and theft. No one can object to that.
It certainly doesn't if they aren't switched on, or if they don't record data.

Have you been reading?
 

hexagon789

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Played with one of these at my local station, nice chap on the other end but as these stations are manned anyway I couldn’t really see the value.
That's intriguing because you would think they would be at unmanned stations only, seems kind of what the design would be useful for
 

robbeech

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That's intriguing because you would think they would be at unmanned stations only, seems kind of what the design would be useful for
A generic design that allows people from all stations to contact staff members might be more favourable than having different machines for different purposes. And of course, it would be a notable benefit were the ticket office to be closed one day for whatever the reason, or, if an operator decides that the station is no longer viable as a staffed station (or reduces the hours) which could be the case at some of the smaller ones.
 

hexagon789

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A generic design that allows people from all stations to contact staff members might be more favourable than having different machines for different purposes. And of course, it would be a notable benefit were the ticket office to be closed one day for whatever the reason, or, if an operator decides that the station is no longer viable as a staffed station (or reduces the hours) which could be the case at some of the smaller ones.
Something like this could become a standard design for everywhere but I wonder if there is a reluctance to employ them at unstaffed stations
 

hexagon789

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Why would there be a reluctance to use them at unstaffed stations?! Surely that's the whole purpose of them!
Vandalism; but I think I've made a typo there somewhere becayse when I posted that it made some sense in my head but re-reading it now it doesn't make as much sense where I was going with it!
 

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