Northern timetable changes May 2019

[Harvey B]

Sowerby Bridge was on the list to be branded and staffed as a Northern Connect station. I live in Halifax and am a member of the local forum so get to hear these things. There has never been a plan for 2tph to Blackpool or Preston on any route

I guess all we can do is speculate at this point until Northern connect launches so I guess I'll take your word for it unless we hear otherwise.

 

[scrapy]

IDK where you got that Sowerby Bridge will be a Northern Connect station no Northern connect services are planned to run from there and neither will they stop at Mytholmroyd , Hebbden Bridge, Accrington and Poulton le Fylde (the last ones not really as relevant)
also the Blackpool to York Northern Connect service will only stop at Leeds, Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Burnley (According to the Northern Connect page but I can't seem to find anything about that on wikipedia), Blackburn, Preston & Blackpool North.
(SOURCE: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/travel/northern-connect)
And since i've found that via Wikipedia and Northern's website i've come to the conclusion that the service Leeds to Blackpool North will likely terminate at Preston again when the Northern Connect starts but until then I guess time will to see what stops it will stop at.

The map you are quoting just shows the major towns and cities however Northern Connect will stop at additional places including Hebden Bridge, Sowerby Bridge and Accrington. Northern Connect on Blackpool to Leeds/York will just be a rebranding of the existing service and largely the same calling pattern when the class 195s take over. It will NOT be an additional service. Although December start may be optimistic for 195 operation.

 

[Harvey B]

The map you are quoting just shows the major towns and cities however Northern Connect will stop at additional places including Hebden Bridge, Sowerby Bridge and Accrington. Northern Connect on Blackpool to Leeds/York will just be a rebranding of the existing service and largely the same calling pattern when the class 195s take over. It will NOT be an additional service. Although December start may be optimistic for 195 operation.

well the 331s start operation on Airedale, Whafredale and Doncaster lines in May (don't know about the other lines they will work on) so I guess the 195s will start operation (probably not on the Northern Connect routes) around then aswell.

 

[Geeves]

As it currently stands no 331s will be entering service in May an if the ASLEF union circulation was correct no 195s will be entering service in 2019. 331s (when the technical issues are resolved) could potentially come into service this year. Northern Connect will not appear until the new stock comes online so for now it will just be business as usual on the Calder Valley obviously with the time table changes mentioned in this thread using the current stock.

 

[Greybeard33]

One "improvement" from May is that Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme get back 4tph in each direction (they have had only 3tph northbound since May 2018). This will comply with the letter, but hardly the spirit, of the TSRs - the intervals between northbound calls at Heaton Chapel will be 8, 9, 12 and 31 minutes!

 

[Starmill]

One "improvement" from May is that Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme get back 4tph in each direction (they have had only 3tph northbound since May 2018). This will comply with the letter, but hardly the spirit, of the TSRs - the intervals between northbound calls at Heaton Chapel will be 8, 9, 12 and 31 minutes!

Indeed. It's naff. If you don't get the xx43 from Heaton Chapel, you are quicker to go over to the other side and get the xx47 / xx58 and change at Stockport than to wait on that platform.

What is the chance Northern would allow it though? Close to zero I imagine.

 

[Harvey B]

As it currently stands no 331s will be entering service in May an if the ASLEF union circulation was correct no 195s will be entering service in 2019. 331s (when the technical issues are resolved) could potentially come into service this year. Northern Connect will not appear until the new stock comes online so for now it will just be business as usual on the Calder Valley obviously with the time table changes mentioned in this thread using the current stock.

Well apparently there are 331s entering service in Leeds in May, and they will be doing short hops between Leeds, Skipton, Ilkley, Bradford Forster Square and Doncaster, while being supplimented by the existing 333s. As for the 331s down in the manchester area, I don't know about them but i'll take your word for it.
As for the 195s, I wonder why they've been postponed in entering service and wouldn't that defeat the concept of a 'Phased Withdrawal' of the Pacers?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Seems unlikely to happen until Sundays become part of the working week - see posts elsewhere. All Northern's Sunday improvements for May are in Yorkshire, where T&Cs are different.

Additional Sunday services (a franchise commitment) have been running between Liverpool and Wigan for several months.
So it can be done west of the Pennines.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Additional Sunday services (a franchise commitment) have been running between Liverpool and Wigan for several months.
So it can be done west of the Pennines.

If that is more than hourly then it's very unbalanced,
the gap between 1445 and 1845 MAN-SOT is unreasonable and unacceptable and it's not the only one.

 

[Mathew S]

Additional Sunday services (a franchise commitment) have been running between Liverpool and Wigan for several months.
So it can be done west of the Pennines.

They've also been cancelled almost every Sunday due to lack of staff. No point timetabling services you can't run, franchise commitment or not.

 

[Starmill]

If that is more than hourly then it's very unbalanced,
the gap between 1445 and 1845 MAN-SOT is unreasonable and unacceptable and it's not the only one.

The Sunday service has recently been improved, ostensibly, from 1tph to 2tph between Liverpool and Wigan and Manchester and Wigan via Atherton. I think this took place in December 2017. Atherton services were extended to run through the evening too, rather than a final train around 1800.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

The Sunday service has recently been improved, ostensibly, from 1tph to 2tph between Liverpool and Wigan and Manchester and Wigan via Atherton. I think this took place in December 2017. Atherton services were extended to run through the evening too, rather than a final train around 1800.

Ahh December 2017, when Congy was supposed to go hourly on Sundays, I actually still don't know why it didn't at the time.

2tph for that line is not unreasonable, although I'd imagine you could get away with 1 tph.
Looks like I'll just have to put up with 1tp3.5h until who knows when...

 

[Bletchleyite]

2tph is to me a fairly "golden" level for a medium distance regional express up to long distance InterCity. It's the entire basis of the Swiss system. Going from 1 to 2tph probably brings far more benefits than any other frequency increase.

 

[Llama]

As it currently stands no 331s will be entering service in May an if the ASLEF union circulation was correct no 195s will be entering service in 2019. 331s (when the technical issues are resolved) could potentially come into service this year. Northern Connect will not appear until the new stock comes online so for now it will just be business as usual on the Calder Valley obviously with the time table changes mentioned in this thread using the current stock.

That Aslef circular was a bit misleading, as I understand it it stipulated that a '331 only' training course has now been agreed because there will not be 195s entering service [in some parts of the business] this year (which I understand to be Leeds area). The reason for this is because the original 331 training agreement was only ever as a couple of extra days 'bolted on' to the end of the 195 course.
195s are still planned to enter service on the west of the business in the near future.

 

[Starmill]

2tph is to me a fairly "golden" level for a medium distance regional express up to long distance InterCity. It's the entire basis of the Swiss system. Going from 1 to 2tph probably brings far more benefits than any other frequency increase.

Actually, I would argue that an increase from 5 daily services to hourly service would have a bigger impact proportionally than going from hourly to half-hourly. A train every 3 1/2 hours is so unhelpful that many people will not consider it or even realise it is an option.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Actually, I would argue that an increase from 5 daily services to hourly service would have a bigger impact proportionally than going from hourly to half-hourly. A train every 3 1/2 hours is so unhelpful that many people will not consider it or even realise it is an option.

I think you've just summed up Congleton's situation perfectly. Most people just assume there are no services at all - especially after the Saturday strikes where weekends were wholly unusable.

 

[geoffk]

It's the same train and definitely won't skip Burnley, Accrington or Blackburn. Sowerby Bridge is listed as a future Northern Connect station so the Blackpools may well still stop there too

The Preston (soon to be Blackpool) - York calls at Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd.

 

[50032]

As it currently stands no 331s will be entering service in May an if the ASLEF union circulation was correct no 195s will be entering service in 2019.

Some 195s WILL enter service in the West from the May TT change. That is as long as the issue with the fixed coupler is resolved and driver training resumes in time to get sufficient numbers passed out. Routes will be Liverpool - MIA and Barrow / Windermere - MIA.

 

[Harvey B]

The Preston (soon to be Blackpool) - York calls at Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd.

Don't forget it also stops at the stations between Leeds and York e.g: Cross Gates. But whether they stop there when Northern Connect launches and whether Northern Connect will be a different service altogether is still a mystery.

 

[Kite159]

Don't forget it also stops at the stations between Leeds and York e.g: Cross Gates. But whether they stop there when Northern Connect launches and whether Northern Connect will be a different service altogether is still a mystery.

Wasn't there a Leeds - York service introduced in December which meant the Preston - York services could run fast from Leeds to Church Fenton then to York?

 

[northrob]

Don't forget it also stops at the stations between Leeds and York e.g: Cross Gates. But whether they stop there when Northern Connect launches and whether Northern Connect will be a different service altogether is still a mystery.

Not any more. They usually only stop at Church Fenton now between Leeds and York. The other stations are served by a Leeds - York stopper (but not stopping at Church Fenton) which started in December. I think the original plan was for them to run non-stop Leeds and York, however the timetable chaos last year have caused a rethink on that matter for now...

EDIT - Kite159 just beat me to it!

 

[Paceman]

The map you are quoting just shows the major towns and cities however Northern Connect will stop at additional places including Hebden Bridge, Sowerby Bridge and Accrington. Northern Connect on Blackpool to Leeds/York will just be a rebranding of the existing service and largely the same calling pattern when the class 195s take over. It will NOT be an additional service. Although December start may be optimistic for 195 operation.

The criteria for Northern Connect services to stop was a population of 80k+. Can confirm they won’t be stopping at Sowerby Bridge.

 

[Harvey B]

The criteria for Northern Connect services to stop was a population of 80k+. Can confirm they won’t be stopping at Sowerby Bridge.

So I guess the other stations on the caldervale line between Leeds and Blackburn (E.g: Sowerby Bridge, Hebbden Bridge and Accrington) will be served by the existing Preston (which will be extended to Blackpool in May) service which I assume will be cut back to terminating at Preston (Or maybe even Blackburn) when Northern Connect launches in December (providing it isn't delayed)

 

[Glenn1969]

If 80k is the limit these trains would have to go nonstop from Halifax to Blackburn. I don't see that. There is no plan for 2tph on this route in any case

 

[BlueFox]

The criteria for Northern Connect services to stop was a population of 80k+. Can confirm they won’t be stopping at Sowerby Bridge.

Have things changed? The plan for the franchise said:
"Hebden Bridge, Wakefield Kirkgate, Sowerby Bridge, Todmorden, New Pudsey, Halifax and Bradford Interchange will all become Northern Connect stations, staffed 0600 to 2200 daily, with catering facilities and free Wi-Fi."

 

[Glenn1969]

Yes I know it did. And no I don't think things have changed

 

[Mathew S]

The criteria for Northern Connect services to stop was a population of 80k+. Can confirm they won’t be stopping at Sowerby Bridge.

The plan was to link all those towns/cities with 80k+ population; not to *only* stop at those places, that would be absurd.

 

[johntea]

Looks like the extra semi-fast Leeds to Harrogate services are coming into play from the May timetable

Leeds - Horsforth - Hornbeam Park - Harrogate at roughly :15 each hour and the other way roughly :02 each hour, until around 5/6pm anyway

 

[gnolife]

The plan was to link all those towns/cities with 80k+ population; not to *only* stop at those places, that would be absurd.

I'd use Middlesbrough - Carlisle as an the most obvious counterexample, there's absolutely no demand for a service calling at Middlesbrough, Stockton, Hartlepool, Sunderland, Newcastle and MetroCentre ONLY- not even reaching the advertised destination of Carlisle (with a population of 75,306 (2011 Census, number pulled from Wikipedia)

 

[splashoutradio]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but one change I've just come across is the addition of an extra (later) journey on the sparsely served line between Sheffield and York via Pontefract Baghill. Hopefully, subject to good reliability, this will make day trips a much more attractive option.