Northern timetable changes May 2019

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by absolutelymilk, 19 Jan 2019.

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  1. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    There seems to be a large issue with platform scheduling for the 09:14 Leeds to Harrogate and the 09:17 Leeds to Carlisle

    Basically Harrogate goes from 1A and Carlisle goes from 1B so to quite a number of passengers on a daily basis just jump on the front train for Harrogate (as generally the Carlisle train still has the doors locked until just before departure) and end up on a nice unexpected trip to Horsforth :D
     
  2. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Platforms 17a and 17b hold two Northern trains for Sheffield. The xx.30 for Sheffield and the xx.38 for Lincoln. The xx.38 gets to Sheffield at least 15 minutes before that 00.30. One or two get caught out every day. However it's a 20 minute shorter journey time by using the XC service from 11 or 12!
     
    Last edited: 27 Jun 2019
  3. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    At Manchester Airport, the Crewe to Liverpool train comes into Platform 2B on top of the Liverpool to Crewe in 2A. The reversals are scheduled to take 3 and 10 minutes respectively, but are often shorter to recover delays.

    With both trains boarding at the same time, Manchester bound passengers are liable to dash on to the first train they come to, ignore the PIS display and announcements and not realise their mistake until they have departed in the wrong direction!
     
  4. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Platform sharing has been routinely used at Manchester Airport almost since it opened...
     
  5. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    But with most trains the worst that'll happen is you'll get to Piccadilly a bit later than planned and possibly have to change.
     
  6. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    Indeed. But, before the May 2019 timetable change, the same Airport platform was not routinely shared by two identical looking, non terminating trains that depart within a couple of minutes of each other in opposite directions.

    And, being at an Airport, many passengers are using the station for the first time and/or do not have English as their first language.
     
  7. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    At Leeds there's the 2118 Manchester Victoria via Bradford which goes from 13a and 2121 Manchester Victoria via Dewsbury which goes off 13b as the units are split on arrival. That's bound to cause confusion especially if you're just looking at the destination on the trains or PIS
     
  8. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    All the modern hot platforming leaves little margin for delays and the resultant ripples spread around the network. Look at all our major stations and recall the number of services using them 100 years ago. I recall Newcastle with all the suburban platforms at the east end, but at least it was only one station (although Blyth and Tyne trains terminated at Manors). Trains from Sheffield were split between Midland and Victoria, as they were in most other major cities. More trains today and fewer platforms and tracks! Having us all running up and down to find the changed platforms may keep us fit, but it's not a relaxing experience.
     
  9. lyndhurst25

    lyndhurst25 Member

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    The Cumbrian Coast line gets an amended timetable from 1st July 2019 and one of the northbound Saturday morning connections at Barrow in Furness seems to have been messed up. Annoyingly it's one that I used to use. I wonder why?

    Previously on Monday to Saturday we had:
    0823 Lancaster - 0922 Barrow, connecting with 0927 Barrow to Carlisle.

    With the new timetable, on Saturdays only, this has changed to:
    0823 Lancaster - 0926 Barrow, missing the 0917 to Carlisle, meaning a wait until the next train at 1022.
     
  10. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    Only taken the Pontefract and Castleford Express 2 months to pick up on the fact Castleford now has a direct service to Huddersfield! Must be a slow news day :D
     
  11. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    I rode on this service to Castleford in the first few weeks and there was no publicity there about it. The timetable sheets on the platform showed only the two established services, Leeds - Sheffield and Leeds - Knottingley. Only the screen showed Huddersfield among a list of destinations.
     
  12. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    There's the TPE service, of course.
     
  13. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    But that does not stop at Windermere.
     
  14. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    My comment was in reply to a query about services between Manchester Airport and Lancaster (if I can find it). Sorry I should have replied to #812.
     
  15. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    There's the TPE Scottish services, of course. Just one of these passes Lancaster non-stop, the 1010 MIA to Edinburgh, non-stop Preston to Carlisle.
     
  16. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    I thought there was a plan to have an hourly service from Manchester to Lancaster via Wigan North Western once the 195's are fully introduced with selected services extended to Barrow/Windermere. I'm not sure if this is still the plan though.
     
  17. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    It's an hourly service from via Wigan to Barrow/Windermere but noen of the Windermere ones stop at Lancaster (and several Barrow ones don't either, I think).
     
  18. Roose

    Roose Member

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    If Realtimetrains is to be believed, then all eleven trains from (and to) the airport from Barrow stop at Lancaster.

    Of the four Windermere trains, two southbound stop at Lancaster, two don't; northbound, one stops three don't.
     
  19. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    The franchise agreement did not specifically require services between Windermere and the Airport to call at Lancaster. However:

    Northbound, 4 services daily from Preston to Windermere were required to call at Lancaster, as well as 12 services daily from Preston to Barrow.

    Southbound, 15 services daily from Lancaster to the Airport, calling at Preston were required. Also 4 services daily from Windermere to the Airport calling at Wigan; plus 13 daily from Barrow to Preston calling at Lancaster, 8 of which must extend to the Airport via Wigan.

    Clearly the current service pattern is not fully compliant. I wonder if calls at Lancaster will be added to the Windermere services once 195s have replaced all the slower 158s?
     
  20. Glenn1969

    Glenn1969 Member

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    But that TSR also included the Bradford- Airport, Bradford- Nottingham and Calder Valley- Liverpool services. So I'm thinking it may have been superseded by internal discussions between Northern, NR and DfT that we are not privy to? Hope the 195 and 331 full introduction goes smoothly
     
  21. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    I was quoting from the TSR2, December 2017, whereas I believe the three services you mention were only in the TSR3, December 2019?

    But the TSRs assumed Oxenholme to Windermere electrification would go ahead, so the Windermere services would have been worked by EMUs and the Barrows by DMUs, without the interworking that is now happening. Reading between the lines, the TSRs appeared to envisage a two-hourly DMU service between the Airport and Barrow, with an EMU service between the Airport and Lancaster in the alternate hours, extended to Windermere four times daily.

    There will certainly have been negotiations between the DfT and Northern over compensation for the cancellation of Windermere electrification. The order for additional 195s will have been one outcome, but as you say it seems likely that amendments to the TSRs were also agreed, though they are not in the public domain.
     
  22. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    Chester today a major problem with platforming.. 2D72 couldn't go into P5 due to the 153 stabling there, 2D72 was a 156+150. P6 was being used by 1E62 Chester - Leeds, had to wait for this to go to allow 2D72 into P6.
     
  23. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Yes 9, 9, 11 and 31 is far from impressive but at least the 4tph are generally well-patronized since the May TT change. Plus there are hardly any 2-car workings now some have gone over to electric services.
     
  24. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Some observations on the Huddersfield-Castleford service.

    On the services I've caught, there have always been a few people travelling from Castleford and Normanton travelling through Wakefield (albeit I usually use it on a Saturday). Yesterday there were about four people who got on at Normanton.

    When I was telling the guard what an excellent service it was, he smiled and intoned that it wasn't meeting the numbers currently. It made me think that perhaps the service isn't well known enough.

    When Grand Central started their Bradford service, I recieved a small leaflet, including the timetable through my door (and my local station isn't even served by GC). Perhaps Northern just need to leaflet all the homes in Normanton and Castleford to tell them that the service exists.
     
  25. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    I've always thought the Huddersfield - Castleford was a bit of an odd service to have tbh. The previous Huddersfield - Wakefield Westgate service often conveyed passengers changing at Westgate on to Intercity services, so I wouldn't be surprised if the current passenger numbers are lower than those pre-May 2018. I don't suppose it helps that from Castleford it's only a few minutes behind the Sheffield, so it doesn't add much value to the Castleford - Wakefield section
     
  26. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    On the other hand, having the Huddersfield service so close behind the Sheffield, does imply that those getting on it are probably on it to go through to Huddersfield.
     
  27. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    It would be great if the departure from Castleford could be moved to the opposite half hour, as it would then provide a more even service from Castleford to Wakefield and Mirfield to Huddersfield, which might help to attract more passengers. Extending to Glasshoughton / Pontefract might also work subject to there being time in the schedule / paths available
     
  28. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    If they were going to extend it anywhere, I think that York via Burton Salmon would be a much better bet than Ponte.
     
  29. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    The castleford service is a shame. It seems to want to try to be the start of some improvements to non leeds West Yorkshire rail network. But lack of advertisement and I'd say lack of useful ultimate destination, York? Pontefract via glasshoughton (for escape and other leisure) makes it not quite right. A shame if it is left to fail.
     
  30. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

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    Services to castleford never go to York, they either go to Sheffield or Knottingley (with some trains extending down to Goole) from Leeds. One improvement I can suggest for that line is to put some refurbished 150s on that line as it seemed like it was Pacer dominated when I travelled on the line last week
     
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