Northern timetable changes May 2019

[Mathew S]

I'm hoping the Castlefield area TWAO will be considered as part of the TRU so Picc platforms 15/16 can still be delivered. Forlorn hope though I guess?

TWAO - Transport and Works Act Order, I think?
But what's a TRU?

 

[Philip]

Surely the issue at Manchester is more the lack of west-facing terminal platforms? If the TSR is fully implemented, the Victoria through platforms will have to terminate two DMUs per hour, from Kirkby and Wigan Wallgate, and one EMU per hour, from Preston. The Calder Valley services will all run through Victoria, leaving the hourly Stalybridge shuttle as the only service using the east-facing bays.

I wonder if something could be done with the up through line at Salford Crescent for this sort of thing. Build a platform and access to the booking hall and then the through line should be able to cope with one or two terminating trains per hour, given the southbound TPE services will be the only through trains to utilise it.

 

[Mathew S]

I wonder if something could be done with the up through line at Salford Crescent for this sort of thing. Build a platform and access to the booking hall and then the through line should be able to cope with one or two terminating trains per hour, given the southbound TPE services will be the only through trains to utilise it.

To avoid cluttering this timetable thread with posts about infrastructure solutions, I have created a new thread in the infrastructure forum: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...to-west-facing-capacity-in-manchester.178560/

Idea supported by forum staff team

 

[notlob.divad]

TWAO - Transport and Works Act Order, I think?
But what's a TRU?

Transpennine Route Upgrade perhaps?

 

[quantinghome]

Just because the trains are crowded in rush hour does not mean that there would be enough money made from making them longer to justify the extra cost of said longer trains.
Like it or not, the railway is a business and if adding carriages does not make money it is not going to happen.

Except it's not really a business is it? The passenger railway would cease to exist if it was run as a business i.e. with no government subsidy of any form. The south-east receives subsidy as well as the north, albeit less due to its higher population density. The railways serving the northern city regions are showing all the signs of suppressed demand, and with driving into city centres still being (just about) a viable option compared to London, if we want to get serious about combating pollution then we need a more attractive offering on our trains.

 

[Flyingsprinter]

Are northern going to release the timetable soon? The 3 months in advance it usually takes is almost here. Or are we getting a repeat of last years may debarcle? Suppose only time will tell.

 

[scrapy]

Are northern going to release the timetable soon? The 3 months in advance it usually takes is almost here. Or are we getting a repeat of last years may debarcle? Suppose only time will tell.

I think it's supposed to be done at least 12 weeks before, which is this Sunday.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think it's supposed to be done at least 12 weeks before, which is this Sunday.

I think it has already been said that Northern were not expecting to fully release it until about 10 weeks before, cannot find it up thread.

 

[tbtc]

Are northern going to release the timetable soon? The 3 months in advance it usually takes is almost here. Or are we getting a repeat of last years may debarcle? Suppose only time will tell.

I think it's supposed to be done at least 12 weeks before, which is this Sunday.

I think it has already been said that Northern were not expecting to fully release it until about 10 weeks before, cannot find it up thread.

...and yet people are getting their knickers in a twist because HS2 can't guarantee the number of London services calling at Oxenholme in the mid 2030s...

 

[Killingworth]

I think it has already been said that Northern were not expecting to fully release it until about 10 weeks before, cannot find it up thread.

Last year it seems to have been made public on 7th April and we know what happened then. Best not to rush it and get it nearer right this time. A date in early March would be an improvement for timetable release, but it's releasing one that provides more service improvements that actually work that we really want.

 

[Thomas6187]

To be fair the original TT for May 18 was available early February, but then the delays to the Bolton line meant that the TT was rewritten in just 6 weeks.

 

[SC43090]

Are northern going to release the timetable soon? The 3 months in advance it usually takes is almost here. Or are we getting a repeat of last years may debarcle? Suppose only time will tell.

The timetables was in the system a few weeks ago but have disappeared....... it reminds me of what happened 12 months ago.... We all know what took place a shambles...... Could it be a repeat of May 2018?????

SC 43090

 

[Glenn1969]

The early morning Chester service has gone missing from RTT today. I hope that is not a sign that the launch of his route is delayed again

 

[Mathew S]

The timetables was in the system a few weeks ago but have disappeared....... it reminds me of what happened 12 months ago.... We all know what took place a shambles...... Could it be a repeat of May 2018?????

SC 43090

Not quite. I've just looked and everything that had already been entered for both Wigans, and Bolton, is still there. We knew there were things that were still going to change, so let's try not to jump to conclusions.

 

[Greybeard33]

Northern's services have started to be entered in Real Train Times, and because there are likely to be a few big changes, I thought they deserved their own thread.

At this time, there are a couple of Hazel Grove - Blackpool services loaded in which are three minutes quicker between Piccadilly and Preston than the current services, partly because they have one fewer stop - I thought there would be more of a time gain than this! They are pathed as Class 323s.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

Looking again at the two weekday Hazel Grove to Blackpool North services that were loaded on 19 Jan (1030 and 1530 from Piccadilly), which are pathed as 90mph 323s, they are actually scheduled to take 52 minutes from Piccadilly to Preston, exactly the same as the current 1031 and 1531 Piccadilly to Blackpool North DMU services, pathed as 75mph Sprinters. They have the same stopping pattern, so plenty of slack there. From Preston to Blackpool they are two or three minutes quicker.

These services have a new path from Hazel Grove (xx03) to Piccadilly, calling at Woodsmoor, Davenport, Stockport, Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme. Maybe replacing the xx34 from Buxton (xx10 from Hazel Grove)? However, there is also one Buxton (0834) to Piccadilly (0936) service loaded. This takes the path of the current (off pattern) 0910 Hazel Grove to Piccadilly, with the same stopping pattern.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...9/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT

Straws in the wind.... Hopefully all will be revealed soon.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Anyone know if first class is declassified on the 185s on the Barrow-Manchester services?

 

[Starmill]

Anyone know if first class is declassified on the 185s on the Barrow-Manchester services?

When I made enquiries with Northern I was told it was declassified. I also spoke briefly with the guard and he confirmed they were all considered declassified now, to the best of his knowledge. The timetable agrees, indicating that First Class isn't available.

 

[Thomas6187]

However, there is also one Buxton (0834) to Piccadilly (0936) service loaded. This takes the path of the current (off pattern) 0910 Hazel Grove to Piccadilly EMU, with the same stopping pattern.

The 09:10 Hazel Grove-Piccadilly is currently a DMU, coming off a ECS from Stockport, which comes off the 08:39 arrival from Chester. So does mean the Chester service will be extended to Piccadilly

 

[Iskra]

When I made enquiries with Northern I was told it was declassified. I also spoke briefly with the guard and he confirmed they were all considered declassified now, to the best of his knowledge. The timetable agrees, indicating that First Class isn't available.

A guard had a go at me for sitting in one of those. Despite the fact that he was allowing his off duty colleagues and regulars to sit in there without even looking at some of their tickets.

 

[Paceman]

3 per hour HGT to Leeds

Hourly Hull to Scarb

 

[Syllopsium]

Were there a load of MAN routes before, as there's a load to New Mills etc now (although still precious little north of Bolton)

 

[Glenn1969]

They have added most Hadfield, Marple and New Mills Central terminators today

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Numerous runs from Chester to Earlestown on RTT today. Could these be route knowledge training for Chester to Leeds?

 

[175001]

Numerous runs from Chester to Earlestown on RTT today. Could these be route knowledge training for Chester to Leeds?

Yes. Route learning for Man Vic drivers, been going every Saturday for weeks now.

 

[Ryry]

Will this time table change see any benefits for passengers wanting to travel on the 0900 service from saltburn to nunthorpe

This is always been a tricky service that is often cancelled

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Yes. Route learning for Man Vic drivers, been going every Saturday for weeks now.

Good to hear. Hopefully the Chester to Leeds service will make the May timetable.

 

[Tim33160]

@Northernassist Twitter say another 4 - 5 weeks before Northern publish their May 2019 timetable

https://twitter.com/passengersfirst/status/1103381332430852097?s=12

Already past the T-12 date so this will be around T-6 weeks

Shades of a repeat of May 2018 in prospect??

 

[Mathew S]

@Northernassist Twitter say another 4 - 5 weeks before Northern publish their May 2019 timetable

https://twitter.com/passengersfirst/status/1103381332430852097?s=12

Already past the T-12 date so this will be around T-6 weeks

Shades of a repeat of May 2018 in prospect??

Bluntly, it's better to get it right than release it before it's ready. I, and I'm sure most others, would far rather it be done right than done quickly.

 

[js1000]

Bluntly, it's better to get it right than release it before it's ready. I, and I'm sure most others, would far rather it be done right than done quickly.

Well I take the completely opposite viewpoint.

The deadline for publishing timetables is 12 weeks. Northern are going to miss this by 6 weeks.

It's like sending a work email with a document out at 11 o'clock at night when the deadline was 6 o'clock. You just know it's been rushed and it's not going to be right.

Personally, I find it disconcerting (again).

 

[Howardh]

Are northern going to release the timetable soon? The 3 months in advance it usually takes is almost here. Or are we getting a repeat of last years may debarcle? Suppose only time will tell.

I twitted them and they said it wasn't ready and didn't give me a specific date when it would be. It would help as I want to book a couple of trips early June so the connection times would be more than handy!!

If we have to wait another 6 weeks, surely there are trains which they KNOW they will run so they can issue a timetable with the cavetat that more will/could/might be added later? Better than producing a table first and then slashing the trains off them later?