Northern timetable plan for May 2018

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Philip, 29 May 2017.

  1. Philip

    Philip Established Member

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    Whilst it is still in the consultation stage, there is now a proposal for how the May 2018 timetable will look across Northern. In terms of the North West and in particular around Manchester, several interesting new through services will be created if it goes ahead:

    Hourly Alderley Edge to Wigan NW via Bolton (semi-fast north of Manchester)

    Hourly Crewe to Liverpool via Man Airport and Chat Moss (the stopping service)

    Hourly Macclesfield to Blackpool North via Bolton (semi-fast to Preston, then all stops to Blackpool)

    Two trains per hour Rochdale to Southport via Atherton,
    with one originating in Leeds and the other Blackburn via Copy Pit (both semi-fast on Atherton line).

    Two trains per hour Rochdale to Blackburn via Bolton, with the all stops continuing to Clitheroe.

    Hourly Stalybridge to Wigan via Bolton (stopping service).

    Hourly Stalybridge to Man Vic shuttle.

    Hourly Man Vic to Wigan and hourly Man Vic to Kirkby, both via Atherton and both stopping services. The Kirkby won't call at Moorside though.

    Hourly Man Vic to Preston (all stops north of Bolton).

    Hourly Man Airport to Lancaster via Chat Moss/Wigan (four per day to Windermere, the rest to Barrow).

    There will also only be one all stops service per hour along the Airport line (the Crewe-Liverpool). The rest will be picked up on a skip-stop basis by, I think, every single Northern service using the line. The Man Airport-Leeds via Bradford is down to call at Burnage for example.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Is the Ormskirk-Preston increase to hourly dropped? ISTR that was a franchise commitment.
     
  4. lejog

    lejog Established Member

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    Before our Cheshire residents get upset it has been reported previously that the Chester to Leeds service will also be starting in May 2018.

     
  5. lejog

    lejog Established Member

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    Particularly of interest I guess to the Manchester Airport to Oxford Road corridor here, but the timetable to be presented to the ORR for May 2018 is AIUI a joint Northern/TPE produced timetable.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  6. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    This is how I see it.

    Platform 13

    XX:03 Manchester Airport (Barrow/Windermere-Airport)
    XX:13 Manchester Airport (Liverpool LS-Airport)
    XX:17 Macclesfield (Blackpool N-Macclesfield)
    XX:30 All stops Airport-->Crewe (Liverpool LS via Newton LW-Crewe)
    XX:37 Alderley Edge (Wigan NW-Alderley Edge)
    XX:46 Manchester Airport (Blackpool-Airport)
    XX:59 Manchester Airport (Leeds-Airport)

    You will also have one EMT(possible still XX:43), an ATW(possible still XX:52)
    and 3 TPE's to fit in

    Platform 14

    XX:02 Blackpool North (Airport-Blackpool)
    XX:10 Liverpool (Airport-Liverpool)
    XX:17 Wigan NW (Alderley Edge-Wigan NW)
    XX:22 Liverpool LS (Crewe-Liverpool LS via Newton LW)
    XX:30 Blackpool North (Macclesfield-Blackpool)
    XX:43 Leeds (Airport-Leeds via Man Vic)
    XX:47 Barrow (Airport-Barrow/Windermere)

    EMT XX:37, ATW XX:52, TPE to NE XX:26? & XX56? and a Scottish
     
  7. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    What about the additional Greenbank to Manchester services? As a minimum we urgently need additional Altrincham-Knutsford-Northwich services in the morning peak, the reverse in the evening peak and the services starting/terminating at Stockport extended to Piccadilly.

    There also seems to be no mention of additional services on the Buxton line.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  8. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    The OP read to me more as a summary of the cross-Manchester connections created, not every new service (e.g. New Mills, Greenbank etc)
     
  9. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    We seem to be missing a Crewe-Stockport-Manchester. And the Stoke-Manchester.
    Do they stay the same?
    Does Hazel Grove get anything to compensate for the diversion of the Blackpool service to Macclesfield?
     
    Last edited: 30 May 2017
  10. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    Yes the extra Mid Cheshire Line services are scheduled to start in May 18. The first one is at 05:09, then at 06:09, 07:09 and 07:40. The Greenbank trains, which is all stops are at XX:09 and the Chester trains at XX:40, stopping at Stockport, Altrincham, Hale, Knutsford, Northwich then all stops to Chester.

    Then it become 17:09, 17:40, 18:09, 18:40 then at XX:40 past each hour until 23:40 (All train are all stops)
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  11. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    There is supposed to be an additional Macclesfield-Manchester service being introduced so presumably the Stoke service will remain as it is, with the possible exception of some lesser used stops being missed out on that service and included on the Macc service instead.

    Hazel Grove was supposed to get 4tph to Manchester at the recast - 2tph electric and 2tph diesel to New Mills/Buxton, which is why I questioned the lack of a mention of additional services in my earlier post.
     
  12. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Thanks. Yes I recall the idea was the villages wouldn't lose their peak time extras. I think there was also supposed to be a mid-afternoon all-stops from Chester to Manchester at around school finishing time.

    Has Hale been excluded from the second service? I thought Arriva wanted to stop the second service there despite it not being a DfT/Rail North requirement.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  13. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    Sorry, Hale is included in the semi fast train
     
  14. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    Basic Off-Peak departure times from Manchester Piccadilly:

    XX:01 Crewe, calling at Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Handforth, Wilmslow, Alderley Edge, Chelford, Goostery, Holmes Chapel, Sandbach and Crewe

    XX:09 Greenbank, calling at Stockport, Navigation Road, Altrincham, Hale, Ashley, Mobberley, Knutsford, Plumbly, Lostock Gralam, Northwich and Greenbank

    XX:09 Rose Hill, calling at Gorton, Guide Bridge, Hyde North, Hyde Central, Woodley, Romiley and Rose Hill

    XX:11 New Mills Newtown, calling at Stockport, Hazel Grove, Middlewood (2 Hourly), Disley and New Mills Newtown

    XX:17 Macclesfield, calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton and Macclesfield. This service starts at Blackpool North

    XX:19 New Mills Central, calling at Ashburys, Belle Vue (2 hourly), Ryder Brow, Reddish North, Brinnington, Bredbury, Romiley, Marple, Strines (2 hourly) and New Mills Central

    XX:24 Hazel Grove, calling at Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Davenport, Woodsmoor and Hazel Grove

    XX:29 Hadfield, calling at Ashburys, Guide Bridge, Flowery Field, Newton for Hyde, Godley, Hattersley, Broadbottom, Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield

    XX:30 Crewe, calling all stops to the Airport, then Styal, Wilmslow, Alderley Edge, Holmes Chapel, Sandbach and Crewe. This service starts at Liverpool

    XX:37 Alderley Edge, Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Handforth, Wilmslow and Alderley Edge. This service starts at Wigan NW

    XX:39 Rose Hill, calling at Ashburys, Gorton, Fairfield, Guide Bridge, Hyde Central, Woodley, Romiley and Rose Hill

    XX:40 Chester, calling at Stockport, Altrincham, Hale, Knutsford, Northwich and Greenbank, Cuddington, Delamere, Mouldworth and Chester

    XX:43 Stoke calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton, Adlington(Cheshire), Presbury, Macclesfield, Congleton, Kidsgrove and Stoke

    XX:46 Buxton, calling at Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Davenport, Woodsmoor, Hazel Grove, New Mills Newtown, Furness Vale, Whaley Bridge, Chapel-en-le-Firth, Dove Holes (2 hourly) and Buxton

    XX:49 Sheffield, calling at Reddish North, Brinnington, Bredbury, Romiley, Marple, Strines and at least New Mills Central. Most services will call Chinley, Edale, Hope, Bamford, Hathersage, Grindleford, Dore and Sheffield, but some will skip stop in the Hope Valley. Also, three trains, at 09:40, 11:40 and 21:43 don’t follow the pattern.

    XX:59 Hadfield, calling at Ashburys, Guide Bridge, Flowery Field, Newton for Hyde, Godley, Hattersley, Broadbottom, Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield

    On the Airport Line one train will stop at:

    Mauldeth Rd and Burnage
    East Didsbury and Heald Green
    Gatley and Heald Green
    East Didsbury
    Heald Green
     
  15. jamess

    jamess Member

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    Given this, do we know if the other TOCs will remain the same i.e. VTWC at xx:15, xx:35, xx:55, XC at xx:07 and xx:27, ATW at xx:30, or are they all being recasted around this?

     
  16. Philip

    Philip Established Member

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    Hazel Grove will have three trains per hour into Manchester. I'm a bit surprised that neither of the Chester line services or any of the diesel Buxton line services are being run as through services to combine with the CLC Liverpool line sopping services.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  17. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    And Northern off-peak departures from Liverpool Lime St.

    (Via Huyton)
    xx:00 Stations to Warrington BQ via Earlestown
    xx:15 Stations to St. Helens Cen & Wigan NW
    xx:29 Stations to Manchester Airport & Crewe
    xx:36 Huyton, St. Helens Cen., Wigan NW then stations to Blackpool North
    xx:45 Stations to St. Helens Cen & Wigan NW

    (CLC Line)
    xx:18 to Manchester Airport, stops include South Parkway, Warrington Cen.
    xx:21 Manchester Oxford Road (skip-stop)
    xx:55 Manchester Oxford Road (skip-stop)

    and on Sundays

    xx:17 Huyton, Prescot, Thatto Heath, St. Helens Cen., Garswood, Wigan NW then stations to Blackpool North
    xx:30 Stations to Manchester Airport & Wilmslow
    xx:45 Stations to St. Helens Cen. & Wigan NW (including Bryn)
    (Edge Hill remains closed on sundays)

    xx:19 Manchester Airport via Warrington Cen.
    xx:25 Manchester Oxford Road (most stations)

    Elsewhere, the Colne - Blackpool South services seems to be split at Preston.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  18. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    I guess they will remain the same
     
  19. pnepaul

    pnepaul Member

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    Is there anything for the Cumbria Coast line??
     
  20. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Is there a source for this (unless you work in Northern's planning team ;))? Would be quite useful to see a proper breakdown like this for other stations (e.g. Man Vic).

    (My thanks to Thomas6187 for the Picc breakdown.)
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  21. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member

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    There's a serious potential problem with the Styal line local stations because they get their links between them mostly reduced to the 1tph stopping service. It moves Mauldeth Road to having 20 - 40 minute gaps, and doesn't make any provision for badly needed extra services in the morning or evening peak. I also think that the franchise spec got it wrong in asking for 3tph at Heald Green and East Didsbury but not Mauldeth Road. The official estimates demonstrate more demand at Mauldeth Road than East Didsbury, and there is far less competition from buses or trams.

    On the plus, it would seem Styal gains an hourly service. It also seems Flixton gains a Sunday service, but not Fairfield, Belle Vue, Ryder Brow, Hyde North, Hyde Central, Woodley, Rose Hill Marple, Humphrey Park, Chassen Road or Bryn.

    I am also deeply concerned about the reliability of a Crewe - Manchester Airport - Liverpool service that will serve every station (possibly except Goostrey and Chelford).
     
    Last edited: 3 Jun 2017
  22. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    Don't know of a public source. "Somebody" sent me a few files for services on the "western" half of Northern. Not sure where they came from.
     
  23. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member

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    The OP says 'consultation stage'. Which implies that its available to a wide range of staff, but is yet to be made public.
     
  24. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Cheers. Did a bit of digging and it sounds like its been sent to stakeholders (Davenport and Mytholmroyd station user groups have publicly given their responses for example).
     
  25. Philip

    Philip Established Member

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    If there is a good turnaround time at both ends then it shouldn't be a huge problem since most passengers using the service will probably only be making local journeys and with not many cross-Manchester journeys.
     
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I suspect this may be in preparation for through Blackpool South to Ormskirk working, which would make better use of units and crews than an hourly self contained service. I think this is what operated the last time the route was hourly in the early 1990s.
     
  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    TBH I still maintain my view that the line would be better served by a self contained "Airport-S-Bahn" of 4 or 6tph all stations Picc-Airport with one of those per hour continuing all stations to Crewe, with the long-distance services removed from the Airport.

    As for Edge Hill closed on Sundays, this is silly. Either there's the demand, in a city in 2017, for a service or there isn't. If there isn't, close it. If there is, serve it properly with at least 2tph all week.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    This is again ridiculous for a city station. Either serve it properly (2tph), or stop pratting about and close it.

    1 train per 2 hours at a city station is a useless joke of a service.
     
    Last edited: 30 May 2017
  29. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Makes perfect sense ;)
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Sorry, fixed :)
     
  31. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    Manchester Victoria off-peak departures (Calder Valley line, etc.)

    xx:05 (Starts at Southport via Atherton) - Man. Vic. - Rochdale then most stations to Blackburn.
    xx:09 (Blackburn/Bolton) - Man Vic. - stations to Rochdale
    xx:20 (Chester/Warrington/Earlestown/NewtonLeW) - Man Vic - Rochdale - Todmorden semi-fast to Leeds
    xx:37 (Southport via Atherton) - Man. Vic - Rochdale then most stations to Leeds
    xx:42 (Clitheroe/Blackburn) - Man Vic - stations to Rochdale
    xx:57 (Man. Airport) - Man Vic - semi-fast to Leeds

    xx:23 Man. Vic - Stalybridge
    xx:53 (Wigan NW) - Man. Vic. - Stalybridge
     
    Last edited: 30 May 2017

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