Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[scrapy]

Why are neither of the two new services along the Atherton line scheduled to stop at Swinton, Moorside and Walkden? Given that Wigan will be retaining a fast train to Manchester, why don't Northern focus on improving services for all stations along the Atherton line, rather than just Atherton and Daisy Hill? I think Moorside and Hag Fold will remain hourly!

Where have you got this info?

The additional trains will both stop at Walkden. It's a franchise requirement. Hag Fold will get a 2nd hourly train.

As J Collins has said the demand isn't there at present for extra services at Swinton or Moorside. When Swinton starts seeing the passenger numbers that Atherton and Daisy Hill currently get on 2 trains an hour then services may increase. Moorside only sees a handful of passengers on each service usually less than 5 boarding or alighting off peak.

 

[scrapy]

In the same area, different line, why on earth is Clifton still on a one train per day frequency? Places like Ashley, Plumle8y, Glazebrook and Hope Valley line stations have or will have hourly or bi-hourly services yet Clifton remains at one train per day.

In the same area, different line, why on earth is Clifton still on a one train per day frequency? Places like Ashley, Plumley, Glazebrook and Hope Valley line stations have or will have hourly or bi-hourly services yet Clifton remains at one train per day, despite being in a more urban area and having Pilkingtons/Chloride on the doorstep.

Pathing on the Bolton line is probably the main reason however i dont think the demand is there for more trains. The other stations you have listed are all on lines with far fewer trains per hour than the 8 per hour each way the Bolton line will have next May they also dont have another station with a regular service 20 minutes walk away and bus route with a service every few minutes,10 minutes walk away.

How many people work at Pilkingtons/Chloride? and where do their workers live? What shifts do they work?

The residential areas around Clifton station are already served by Swinton station which has 2 trains per hour. Clifton is also down quite a steep hill fron these areas whereas Swinton is fairly level. There may be some demand for Clifton station but it would probably mainly be from existing users of Swinton which would reduce passenger numbers there.

 

[Nathan Farnell]

Is Clifton (Manchester) going to get a proper service or is it still going to be one train a day each way? It’s potty at the moment!

 

[scrapy]

Is Clifton (Manchester) going to get a proper service or is it still going to be one train a day each way? It’s potty at the moment!

No plans for one. What's potty? It would surely be potty to stop trains at a station with little demand when there is another station a short distance away with a much better service.

 

[Nathan Farnell]

No plans for one. What's potty? It would surely be potty to stop trains at a station with little demand when there is another station a short distance away with a much better service.

There’s quite a lot of homes within easy walking distance of Clifton station, and there’s plan for more. The parliamentary one train a day is basically just to keep the station open. Any less and it would join the ranks of Denton and Reddish South!

 

[Nathan Farnell]

Thanks for the answers folks, that's good news. I'll be boycotting TPE then if there are starters I can board. The new setup only stands to make the through trains even more full so it's an no brainer.



Not after holding the fast up by at least five minutes mind (on the current timetable) - that'll come to an end though which is good.



There are separate threads for this, and besides it's probably not Northern's problem, but London Midland's.

Sorry, I’m new to this, but yeah, you’re probably right.

 

[Philip]

I must have misread about Walkden and Hag Fold. However, just using passenger footfall figures as a means to justify the level of service is a short-sighted way of analysing it. How do you know that the stations concerned won't 'take off' with a new roaring trade with the boost of extra services? It may well tempt a lot more people to start using the train, especially with the price of bus tickets in Greater Manchester. I can perhaps understand Moorside not getting an increased frequency with it being close to Swinton, but Swinton is the main station for this whole area; in a fairly central location for shops and houses and so it's short-sighted not to have at least one of the extra hourly services calling there and at least see how well used it is over the timetable frame. Clifton is far enough away from Swinton town centre for the offer of a new hourly rail service to tempt the people of Clifton and Pendlebury away from the bus and onto the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really the line needs the wires and a Merseyrail style service, but so long as it's 14x and 15x the acceleration simply isn't good enough to make an all stations service any less frustrating than all stops on the CLC (another line that would massively benefit from a bit of the overhead juice).

 

[Philip]

Really the line needs the wires and a Merseyrail style service, but so long as it's 14x and 15x the acceleration simply isn't good enough to make an all stations service any less frustrating than all stops on the CLC (another line that would massively benefit from a bit of the overhead juice).

It's a shame there doesn't seem to be any interest in restoring the fast lines along the Atherton route. For much of the way the fast line section and structures are still intact.

 

[Mathew S]

Also I have never seen the Southport service leave Piccadilly to the airport anything other than deserted even at peak times.

Oh now, you should try the 1722. Taking turns to breathe is often the order of the day.

 

[Ianno87]

Oh now, you should try the 1722. Taking turns to breathe is often the order of the day.

I wonder what proportion are still on the 1722 after Bolton and Wigan have been called at?

 

[Mathew S]

I wonder what proportion are still on the 1722 after Bolton and Wigan have been called at?

That's a reasonable question. If I catch that train (I try to avoid it) the majority seem to alight at Wigan or Bolton as you suggest. But there are still enough on it post-Wigan that I would call it full. Perhaps 85% seat occupancy, though many of those will have boarded at Wigan.
1722 is an unusual service as TPE don't stop the 1715 from Picadilly (1700 from the airport) to Glasgow in Wigan, so everyone who would catch that service in other hours has to pile on to the 1722.

 

[Starmill]

I'm pretty sure that service (1706 Manchester Airport to Southport) is booked a 4 car 156?

Also, Hag Fold and Moorside have pretty compromised locations. They are both within a 20 minute walk of the area's more 'major' station.

 

[Kendalian]

What it's booked as and what actually turns up are two very different things....

I'm regularly catching the 1714 Oxford Road-Barrow so occasionally see the 1722 Southport if we're late or cancelled.

Haven't seen it as 2x156 yet. Always been 142+150 when I have seen it.

Always a first though!

 

[pemma]

Was it one of the services booked as 156s but changed due to 156s having to take the place of 185s?

 

[Starmill]

I have the following records of 2F80 1706 Manchester Airport to Southport:
4th Jan 2017 Bolton to Wigan Wallgate 150+156
16th June 2017 Manchester Piccadily to Bolton 156+156

 

[scrapy]

Oh now, you should try the 1722. Taking turns to breathe is often the order of the day.

He did say leave Piccadilly to the Airport the service you mention is travelling in the opposite direction.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Oh now, you should try the 1722. Taking turns to breathe is often the order of the day.

Indeed as pointed out I was referring to services to the Airport not back towards Southport.

 

[Harvey10]

I notice a minor uplift in services between York and Sheffield is a big positive.

I’m just wondering if anyone will be able to tell me what Northern Changes are planned for Doncaster?

 

[andyb064]

Looks like the commuters at Liverpool South Parkway to Manchester won't be too happy when they find out their nice modern 6 car TPE Scarborough class 185 has been replaced by Northern Rail Manchester Airport train with whatever stock they can find.
Even worse for anyone who travels to Huddersfield, York etc. Winners and losers I suppose.
Surprised Merseytravel didn't comment in the consultation.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Looks like the commuters at Liverpool South Parkway to Manchester won't be too happy when they find out their nice modern 6 car TPE Scarborough class 185 has been replaced by Northern Rail Manchester Airport train with whatever stock they can find.
Even worse for anyone who travels to Huddersfield, York etc. Winners and losers I suppose.
Surprised Merseytravel didn't comment in the consultation.

They did comment but they are happy to lose it in return for two fast services per hour from lime street, and a service to Glasgow.

 

[Camden]

You must have read a different response to the one I read.

 

[pemma]

Looks like the commuters at Liverpool South Parkway to Manchester won't be too happy when they find out their nice modern 6 car TPE Scarborough class 185 has been replaced by Northern Rail Manchester Airport train with whatever stock they can find.
Even worse for anyone who travels to Huddersfield, York etc. Winners and losers I suppose.
Surprised Merseytravel didn't comment in the consultation.

By 2019 the Liverpool to Manchester Airport service calling at Liverpool South Parkway will be operated by brand new class 195s and platform lengthening to allow 6 car trains to stop at South Parkway is included in the franchise agreement, so presumably there will be occasional 6 car workings. In the interim the stock may be inferior though. They'll also be facilities for purchasing hot and cold refreshments at all 'Northern Connect' stations which will include Birchwood.

 

[pemma]

According to MCRUA they'll be more inter-working between Buxton and Mid-Cheshire line services from May 2018.

 

[LOL The Irony]

According to MCRUA they'll be more inter-working between Buxton and Mid-Cheshire line services from May 2018.

Can I have a link?

 

[ashworth]

I notice a minor uplift in services between York and Sheffield is a big positive.

What is this minor uplift?
I’ve been reading the thread discussing the poor service between Leeds and Goole and people’s proposals for a better service if stock became available. However, I do think a more regular service between York and Sheffield via Pontefract Baghill ought to have a higher priority.

 

[pemma]

Can I have a link?

Latest comment on the chairman's blog (John Oates is the chairman): http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansblog/ Although, most information from MCRUA is via the newsletter which seems to take a long time to appear online.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Thanks

 

[LOL The Irony]

Hi, Jen,

We know the services are to be inter-worked with the Buxton line, which since 142s are not allowed to Buxton means our services will be (almost) all 150 or 156 operated.

However we don’t yet know the diagrams.

This is what was said so looks like pacers will probably be confined to the Southport service.

 

[absolutelymilk]

This is what was said so looks like pacers will probably be confined to the Southport service.

Just to clarify, does this mean that the Buxton and the Chester services will be run by a common pool of units, or will there be services which start at Chester and go via Manchester to Buxton?