Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[Grumpy]

As mentioned by others, the consultation is currently restricted to stakeholders, including Northern staff. The proposed departures from Leeds (Mon - Sat daytime) are:

xx.03 Leeds - Nottingham (remains via Barnsley)

Any particular reason given for it remaining via Barnsley? I am guessing capacity on the Westgate route but I note they've found a path to fit in the extra stopper from Knottingley to Leeds via Wakefield.

The report on potential new stations for West Yorkshire a couple of years back dismissed sites at Ardsley on the basis of no track capacity but suddenly the new Northern franchise promised the Nottingham and Knottingley additional trains.

 

[Starmill]

It would make it worse but also make it a useful commuter service. Those times would suit many people very well, including me .


Thanks for the information.

A commuter service where there is one train in the morning and two in the evening? Can you give an example of where such a service is popular, and considered well-used?

 

[Starmill]

Any particular reason given for it remaining via Barnsley?

Because this change is not due in this timetable.

 

[Grumpy]

Because this change is not due in this timetable.

Fair enough. Thanks Starmill

 

[anti-pacer]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but are there any changes to the Huddersfield-Wakefield service?

 

[yorksrob]

Could someone please post the times of the post 10pm services from Leeds to Wakefield Westgate and Kirkgate?

I know there were due to be significant improvements to these services and that Northern have delivered the extra late services on the Calder Valley line that were due, so I'm confident they've delivered the franchise requirements for late services to Wakefield.

Absolutely. We wait with bated breath.

 

[Starmill]

Just out of interest, what is likely to be the stock used on the new Calder Valley services, as the new stock isn't due until 2019 AIUI?

Please refer to this thread for any further general questions about rolling stock:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100315

Can anyone tell me what a 319 "Flex" is please (in terms of how it differs from a 319)?

Please refer to this thread for anything further on this:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138660

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but are there any changes to the Huddersfield-Wakefield service?

This has been mentioned many times before and is all available in the Franchise Agreement and the franchise award thread.

However, for your convenience, this service will run between Huddersfield and Castleford, calling at all stations via Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[Class 170101]

From Leeds to Carlisle:

05:19
07:47
09:19
11:20
13:20
15:20
17:19
18:19

From Leeds to Lancaster:

07:19
08:19
10:20
12:20
14:20
17:50
19:18

From Lancaster
0648
0938
1038
1243
1443
1743
2030
2130 to Skipton

From Carlisle
0551
0927
1124
1340
1427
1627
1824
2019
(2145 from Ribblehead)

Its a shame the late evening short services to / from Ribblehead don't operate to / from Carlisle.

 

[30907]

Its a shame the late evening short services to / from Ribblehead don't operate to / from Carlisle.

If I interpret the proposal correctly the down train diverts (reverts, if you go back 25 years) to Lancaster while the up starts back from Carlisle.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Is there any news regarding the feasibility study Northern are conducting into use of the Stillington Line for the proposed Northern Connect service from Middlesbrough to Newcastle?

 

[PR1Berske]

I suspect this may be in preparation for through Blackpool South to Ormskirk working, which would make better use of units and crews than an hourly self contained service. I think this is what operated the last time the route was hourly in the early 1990s.

Makes sense. I've often observed the South trains coming into Preston platform 2 full to bursting...before filling up with a brand new set of passengers for its onward journey, as though South to Preston is a distinct separate service from Preston to Colne

 

[anti-pacer]

Please refer to this thread for any further general questions about rolling stock:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100315



Please refer to this thread for anything further on this:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138660



This has been mentioned many times before and is all available in the Franchise Agreement and the franchise award thread.

However, for your convenience, this service will run between Huddersfield and Castleford, calling at all stations via Wakefield Kirkgate.

Thanks Starmill.

The reason I have asked the question about Calder Valley rolling stock on here is due to the enormity of posts on the link you have provided. Unfortunately I have little time to trawl through 101 pages of not totally related information for the answer to a single question.

Thanks for the heads up on Wakefield-Huddersfield services though.

 

[Starmill]

Thanks Starmill.

The reason I have asked the question about Calder Valley rolling stock on here is due to the enormity of posts on the link you have provided. Unfortunately I have little time to trawl through 101 pages of not totally related information for the answer to a single question.

Thanks for the heads up on Wakefield-Huddersfield services though.

I understand. Using Google to search like this: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=site:www.railforums.co.uk+Calder+Valley+new+stock

is often helpful. The vbulletin search is quite difficult to work with I do agree.

 

[anti-pacer]

I understand. Using Google to search like this: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=site:www.railforums.co.uk+Calder+Valley+new+stock

is often helpful. The vbulletin search is quite difficult to work with I do agree.

Ah fantastic, thanks for this.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

As mentioned by others, the consultation is currently restricted to stakeholders, including Northern staff. The proposed departures from Leeds (Mon - Sat daytime) are:

xx.03 Leeds - Nottingham (remains via Barnsley)
xx.03 Leeds - Ilkley
xx.08 Leeds - Huddersfield (via Brighouse)
xx.09 Leeds - Knaresborough (fast to Harrogate)
xx.12 Leeds - Bradford Forster Square
xx.19 Leeds - Manchester Airport (fast, extension of current xx.18)
xx.22 Leeds - Southport (via Brighouse, stopper, extension of current xx.26)
xx.22 Leeds - Doncaster
xx.23 Leeds - Harrogate (additional stopper)
xx.24 Leeds - York (additional, stopper)
xx.26 Leeds - Knottingley (additional, via Wakefield Westgate and Kirkgate)
xx.26 Leeds - Skipton
xx.30 Leeds - Sheffield (via Castleford, stopper)
xx.33 Leeds - Ilkley
xx.38 Leeds - Lincoln (extension of fast Sheffield via Barnsley service)
xx.39 Leeds - York (fast to Harrogate)
xx.42 Leeds - Chester (semi-fast, extension of current xx.51)
xx.42 Leeds - Bradford Forster Square
xx.43 Blackpool North - York (fast Leeds - York)
xx.48 Leeds - Sheffield (via Rotherham, stopper)
xx.49 York - Blackpool North (fast York - Leeds)
xx.53 Leeds - Harrogate (additional stopper)
xx.56 Leeds - Selby
xx.56 Leeds - Skipton
xx.58 Leeds - Knottingley (via Castleford)

As you seem to be "in the know", do you have any info on the proposed timetable for the Penistone line? Specifically, is the timetable going to permit the stop at Elsecar to be reintroduced?

 

[scrapy]

Elsecar will get 2 tph off peak. These will be Huddersfield to Sheffield (Penistone line) and Leeds to Sheffield. Northbound they will be roughly 30 min apart but southbound 20/40min apart.

Have also noticed on the Hope Valley route the 22.48 Sheffield to Man Piccadilly routes via Marple calling at stations to Reddish North. There is also a later 2326 which stops at Dore, Hathersage, Hope, Chinley and Stockport only and a 21.43 from Piccadilly to Sheffield which calls at Romiley, Marple, New Mills and Chinley only.

 

[MarcusL1]

However, for your convenience, this service will run between Huddersfield and Castleford, calling at all stations via Wakefield Kirkgate.

If this change goes ahead, doesn't this mean that there will be no passenger rail connection between Wakefield Kirkgate and Westgate, or am I missing something? If so, this will cause inconveniences.

 

[john.aston.96]

The Ponte to Wakey service via Fev is extended to Leeds via Westgate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AWK]

Can anyone give details of any changes to Doncaster services please? - in particular any attempts to split the 3 Doncaster - Sheffield fasts up so all 3 don't run within 16 mins of each other (TPE at xx42, Northern at xx49 and XC at xx58).

Ta!

 

[scrapy]

Can anyone give details of any changes to Doncaster services please? - in particular any attempts to split the 3 Doncaster - Sheffield fasts up so all 3 don't run within 16 mins of each other (TPE at xx42, Northern at xx49 and XC at xx58).

Ta!

Northern fasts will leave Doncaster at xx21 not sure if there we be any changes to TPE or XC.

 

[scrapy]

Could someone please post the times of the post 10pm services from Leeds to Wakefield Westgate and Kirkgate?
.

Yes several services to Wakefield after 10pm last one at 23.30 to Westgate (for stations to Doncaster)

Times from Leeds to Westgate

22.15, 22.30, 22.44, 23.05 to Sheffield
22.22 and 23.30 to Doncaster

To Kirkgate

22.30 and 23.00 to Sheffield

To Westgate and Kirkgate

22.50 to Pontefract Monkhill

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Elsecar will get 2 tph off peak. These will be Huddersfield to Sheffield (Penistone line) and Leeds to Sheffield. Northbound they will be roughly 30 min apart but southbound 20/40min apart.

Good news - thanks for that! Considering the Elsecar stop on the Penistone line was withdrawn in 2004, it'll only have taken the various incarnations of Northern 14 years to reintroduce it!

 

[yorksrob]

Yes several services to Wakefield after 10pm last one at 23.30 to Westgate (for stations to Doncaster)

Times from Leeds to Westgate

22.15, 22.30, 22.44, 23.05 to Sheffield
22.22 and 23.30 to Doncaster

To Kirkgate

22.30 and 23.00 to Sheffield

To Westgate and Kirkgate

22.50 to Pontefract Monkhill

Does the 23:00 to Sheffield via Kirkgate call at Normanton ?

 

[scrapy]

Yes both the 2230 and 2300 proposed to stop at Normanton.

 

[scrapy]

Just a few observations which havent been widely publicesed looking at timetables on the west side of the pennines (apologises if previously mentioned on this thread)

Gathurst and Hag Fold to get 2tph (up from 1tph) off peak daytimes.

Kearsley, Farnworth, Moses Gate to have evening services although Farnworth loses 1 evening peak train.

No trains at all scheduled to stop at Salwick (are there any proposals to remove this station post electrification?)

Styal to get an hourly service 7 days a week.

Salford Central to be served late evenings and Sundays.

Disley and Middlewood to lose daytime off peak direct services to Buxton.

Navigation Rd, Ashley, Mobberley, Plumley and Lostock Grahlam to lose daytime off peak direct services to Chester.

Some very weird stopping patterns on Hope Valley and Piccadilly to Airport routes.

 

[PR1Berske]

No trains at all scheduled to stop at Salwick (are there any proposals to remove this station post electrification?).

Mention was made some years ago by Lancashire County Council that Salwick could close if Cottam/Cottam Parkway was built. That project has gone awfully quiet of late so the future of Salwick would seem nonetheless uncertain.

 

[pemma]

Navigation Rd, Ashley, Mobberley, Plumley and Lostock Gralam to lose daytime off peak direct services to Chester.

That was expected due to Northern having a franchise requirement to speed up off-peak daytime Mon-Sat services between Chester and Manchester via Altrincham.

I know a certain Mobberley resident will kick up a fuss about that but the reality is Mobberley is a low usage stations and the majority of the usage from it is to Greenbank, Northwich, Knutsford, Hale, Altrincham, Stockport, Manchester where direct services will be retained.

Some very weird stopping patterns on Hope Valley and Piccadilly to Airport routes.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread the hourly all stops shuttle will be withdrawn and replaced by other services calling at one or two stations between Piccadilly and the Airport.

 

[FordFocus]

I believe an issue with the fourth Hazel Grove service is the issue of getting the down direction train towards Manchester across the Up Fast and Up Slow lines at Edgeley Junction. 3tph should easily suffice a station like that off peak.

 

[Starmill]

Does this mean Disley is staying at 1tph? That's crazy, Disley is not a 'low usage station' like Mobberley is, it is one of the best sited on the line.

 

[pemma]

Does this mean Disley is staying at 1tph? That's crazy, Disley is not a 'low usage station' like Mobberley is, it is one of the best sited on the line.

I believe annual usage of 200,000 or more was required for there to be a franchise requirement of 2tph. (Disley had 170,000 at the time the franchise requirements were set which has since increased to 187,000.) Hale missed out on a franchise requirement for 2tph but Arriva decided it would be beneficial to stop the second service there.