Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[cuccir]

Overall a lot of changed times to/from Barrow and few oddities both removed and added so it's a bit hard to track what's happened. I've come up with the following summary based on the main destinations and merging the various 1-a-day services (Windermere, Sellafield, Leeds, Morecambe, Maryport) into the closest more common destination/origin:

To Old New
Lancaster 9 9
Preston 6 8
M'cr 3 4
Carlisle 11 14
Millom 3 4

From Old New
Lancaster 8 10
Preston 6 6
M'cr 3 4
Carlisle 10 15
Millom 5 5

Most of the improvements are on the Cumbria Coast, although a good improvement on outwards services to Preston/Manchester - I guess we'll see what happens to the Preston/Manchester services when Northern Connect is properly launched!

With regards to the 'oddities': the 1-a-day services to Windermere and from Morecambe have gone, but the service from Leeds is a welcome addition.

 

[bellalistair]

The Furness and Cumbrian coast line has a surprising and unbelievable improvement. Especially Sunday’s. What trains will be running Sunday’s? 156?

Evenings and Sunday operation down the coast is fortunately not unbelievable, though a long time coming! I suspect a 156 & 153 mix for the time being as for the rest of the week locos excepted.

 

[alansheppard77]

looks like hull to scarborough is staying at every 90 to 120 minutes and not hourly as promised

 

[Loop & Link]

I don't know how this affects your calculations, but the units on the Crewe line are supposed to do the following circuit:
LIV-MAN-MIA-CRE-SPT-MAN-HAZ-MAN-SPT-CRE-MIA-MAN-LIV.
Whether they do anything else upon arrival at Lime St (or just sit idle for almost an hour) remains an unknown. The above could also go by the wayside if crew training is not completed in time.

They’ll be doing a trip to Warrington BQ in there too.

So it’ll be Lime St-Crewe-Manchester Picc-Hazel Grove-Manchester Picc-Crewe-Lime St-Warrington BQ-Lime St.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I don't know how this affects your calculations, but the units on the Crewe line are supposed to do the following circuit:
LIV-MAN-MIA-CRE-SPT-MAN-HAZ-MAN-SPT-CRE-MIA-MAN-LIV.
Whether they do anything else upon arrival at Lime St (or just sit idle for almost an hour) remains an unknown. The above could also go by the wayside if crew training is not completed in time.

Looking now in RTT it looks like the Manchester-Stockport-Crewe stoppers are all timed again for 323s. They were timed for 319s, also the previously timetabled hourly Sunday service has shrunk back to 2 hourly.

 

[notlob.divad]

Looking now in RTT it looks like the Manchester-Stockport-Crewe stoppers are all timed again for 323s. They were timed for 319s, also the previously timetabled hourly Sunday service has shrunk back to 2 hourly.

Looks to me like sunday is timetabled for 323 and weekdays for 319

 

[Puffing Devil]

Looks to me like sunday is timetabled for 323 and weekdays for 319

Not the stoppers - they all seem to be 323 on here: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CEL/2018/05/14/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The early morning service to Bolton is a 319.

Which suits me as I like the 323 and don't want the 319s.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Not the stoppers - they all seem to be 323 on here: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CEL/2018/05/14/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The early morning service to Bolton is a 319.

Which suits me as I like the 323 and don't want the 319s.

My bad -wrong dates in RTT. It is a 319 from the change. Boo.

We do have the hourly Sunday, though.

 

[Bovverboy]

Looks to me like sunday is timetabled for 323 and weekdays for 319

The reason, presumably, being that, on Sundays there isn't a Crewe - Manchester Airport - Liverpool service for the Manchester - Stockport - Crewe service to interwork with.

 

[IanXC]

Can I remind members of the Forum Rule that acronyms be explained on first usage - in this instance where locations may be mentioned multiple times can I ask we also consider mentioning full names each time where applicable.

thanks

 

[Bovverboy]

50032 said: ↑
I don't know how this affects your calculations, but the units on the Crewe line are supposed to do the following circuit:
LIV-MAN-MIA-CRE-SPT-MAN-HAZ-MAN-SPT-CRE-MIA-MAN-LIV.
Whether they do anything else upon arrival at Lime St (or just sit idle for almost an hour) remains an unknown. The above could also go by the wayside if crew training is not completed in time.

They’ll be doing a trip to Warrington BQ in there too.

So it’ll be Lime St-Crewe-Manchester Picc-Hazel Grove-Manchester Picc-Crewe-Lime St-Warrington BQ-Lime St.

Realtime Trains suggests that some of the WBQs will interwork with the Crewe, and some won't, but I wouldn't like to say how many of each there will be since not all the quoted platform numbers are correct. There isn't a WBQ every hour, anyway.

P.S. Is there really going to be a 319 sat at WBQ from 0747 to 0909 NSu? (I.e. at the height of the AM peak).

 

[Loop & Link]

Realtime Trains suggests that some of the WBQs will interwork with the Crewe, and some won't, but I wouldn't like to say how many of each there will be since not all the quoted platform numbers are correct. There isn't a WBQ every hour, anyway.

P.S. Is there really going to be a 319 sat at WBQ from 0747 to 0909 NSu? (I.e. at the height of the AM peak).

From at least 09:00-15:00 when there are hourly Bank Quay’s they will interwork with the Crewe’s. And 3 diagrams will be booked a Class 323.

 

[notlob.divad]

The reason, presumably, being that, on Sundays there isn't a Crewe - Manchester Airport - Liverpool service for the Manchester - Stockport - Crewe service to interwork with.

There is a Wilmslow <> Manchester Airport <> Liverpool. But yes with one extending to Crewe and the other not, it does appear the ability to interwork them at the Crewe end is lost. It will also make sense if Loop & Link's statement is true, as there are no Warrington services on a Sunday for them to interwork with at the Liverpool end.

 

[notlob.divad]

P.S. Is there really going to be a 319 sat at WBQ from 0747 to 0909 NSu? (I.e. at the height of the AM peak).

It may well do. An 0812 departure from Warrington BQ, towards Liverpool, would leave Earlestown at 0822. This path is used by the service that comes from Wigan NW via Newton-Le-Willows.

 

[Loop & Link]

It will also make sense if Loop & Link's statement is true.

It is true, trust me!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Let's hope that what goes into Manchester from Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme has four or more coaches as capacity will not be far reduced overall even if the services will be less frequent

 

[pemma]

Let's hope that what goes into Manchester from Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme has four or more coaches as capacity will not be far reduced overall even if the services will be less frequent

The Stoke service will have to be 3 car 323s but they aren't that much smaller than 4 car 319s and the Crewe will be a mix of 323s and 319s. The Buxton will be the problem one, as the greatest gap is between the Stoke and Buxton services, plus if Northern use 4 car 150s on all Buxton services it'll likely mean other diesel routes will be short of capacity, considering Buxton is getting additional services and that the Buxton services which don't call at Heaton Chapel northbound will still call at Levenshulme.

 

[Bovverboy]

From at least 09:00-15:00 when there are hourly Bank Quay’s they will interwork with the Crewe’s. And 3 diagrams will be booked a Class 323.

Loop & Link, I appreciate that you've access to information which I don't, but what you're saying is very much contrary to what's showing on RTT, at the moment. Between 1000 and 1300 (inclusive) there's nothing showing which suggests the xx.00 WBQ will form from anything other than the immediately preceding ex-WBQ arrival. The WBQs are shown as arriving and departing Platform 3 at Lime Street, the Crewe Platform 4.
Outside those hours things look less certain. The 0900 WBQ is shown as forming from the 0826 arrival ex Crewe, but I can't trace what forms the 0928 Crewe departure. Conversely, the 1428 Crewe looks to form from the 1353 arrival ex WBQ, but I can't see what forms the 1400 WBQ. The 1500 WBQ looks to form from the 1453 ex-WBQ arrival, but I can't see what forms the 1528 Crewe.
The above times are approximate, I am aware that there are minor variations in arrival times.

 

[50032]

Loop & Link, I appreciate that you've access to information which I don't, but what you're saying is very much contrary to what's showing on RTT, at the moment. Between 1000 and 1300 (inclusive) there's nothing showing which suggests the xx.00 WBQ will form from anything other than the immediately preceding ex-WBQ arrival. The WBQs are shown as arriving and departing Platform 3 at Lime Street, the Crewe Platofrm 4.
Outside those hours things look less certain. The 0900 WBQ is shown as forming from the 0826 arrival ex Crewe, but I can't trace what forms the 0928 Crewe departure. Conversely, the 1428 Crewe looks to form from the 1353 arrival ex WBQ, but I can't see what forms the 1400 WBQ. The 1500 WBQ looks to form from the 1453 ex-WBQ arrival, but I can't see what forms the 1528 Crewe.
The above times are approximate, I am aware that there are minor variations in arrival times.

I'd also previously heard of this diagramming link between Crewe and Bank Quay services. I'd suggest the platform allocations aren't to be relied on just yet.

 

[racklam]

There is one train a day in each direction between Leeds and Hull operated by Northern.

06:02 Leeds-Hull via Harrogate and York
22:30 Hull-Leeds direct

Good to see Cattal to Eastrington commuters are finally getting a direct service. Shame it's only in one direction

 

[IanXC]

Good to see Cattal to Eastrington commuters are finally getting a direct service. Shame it's only in one direction

No no, its all about the Weeton to Wressle mob!

 

[Ant158]

Is the Blackpool to York curtailment between Preston and Leeds a permanent change? Thought the plan was for this route to be made a Connect route.

 

[pemma]

Is the Blackpool to York curtailment between Preston and Leeds a permanent change? Thought the plan was for this route to be made a Connect route.

It's a temporary change due to a DMU shortage and an EMU surplus created by Bolton wiring not being completed. Consequently they'll be a 319 running a Preston to Blackpool shuttle instead of a through service from Yorkshire. Yes it is set to become a Connect route with new 195s in 2019.

 

[lejog]

Also, the service was due to run fast from Leeds to York from May, but this fast Northern service has been postponed until December.

 

[backontrack]

No no, its all about the Weeton to Wressle mob!

No joy if you're trying to get from Burley Park to Broomfleet...

 

[palmersears]

Are the changes on the Buxton line, whereby all services now originate/terminate at Manchester Piccadilly instead of carrying on across Manchester to Wigan/Preston/Blackpool North, permanent or a temporary measure in light of the delayed electrification works?

 

[pemma]

Are the changes on the Buxton line, whereby all services now originate/terminate at Manchester Piccadilly instead of carrying on across Manchester to Wigan/Preston/Blackpool North, permanent or a temporary measure in light of the delayed electrification works?

Permanent. Buxton gets 1/2 hourly service to Manchester and eventually there should be 2 x EMUs running shuttles from Hazel Grove to Piccadilly. Wigan services will go to Alderley Edge and Blackpool services will go to Macclesfield (once Bolton is fully electrified.)

 

[palmersears]

Permanent. Buxton gets 1/2 hourly service to Manchester and eventually there should be 2 x EMUs running shuttles from Hazel Grove to Piccadilly. Wigan services will go to Alderley Edge and Blackpool services will go to Macclesfield (once Bolton is fully electrified.)

I see. Most disappointing from a personal perspective as it now means my commute home will have to be from Piccadilly rather than Deansgate. It'll keep me fit if nothing else I suppose!

 

[Mathew S]

I see. Most disappointing from a personal perspective as it now means my commute home will have to be from Piccadilly rather than Deansgate. It'll keep me fit if nothing else I suppose!

Tram?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tram?

Or just a connecting train costing nowt.