Northern Trainee Drivers - Newcastle & Darlington (25/03/21)

[little-legs]

Evening guys

I applied for the Trainee Driver role in Hull for Northern, when it was advertised on January 29th.

I got an email on the 19th April inviting me for interview on the 4th May. If my application is anything to go by, then that’s roughly 10 weeks from the application deadline to getting the invite to interview, so don’t despair if you’ve not heard back yet.

I’m an internal candidate (currently a conductor), who has successfully passed the interview with the DTM’s last July (failed the psychometric), and can tell you that internals and externals get interviewed at the same time. Also, a colleague of mine applied this time around and didn’t get an interview, so it’s definitely not a case that all internal candidates are guaranteed an interview.

Also, I’m reliably informed that Northern are starting to do their psychometric testing in house from now, which may be a reason that applications are taking a bit longer as I don’t think they would start interviewing until the test centre is fully operational.

From experience, once you have an interview, the process moves quite quickly. For example, the last time I interviewed, it was on a Friday morning, I found out on the Monday that I’d passed and then I had my psychometric the week after, so that was a total of 8 working days from interview to psychometric.

Anyway, just thought id share my experience to give some idea of timescale.

Best of luck everyone.

Hi Michael1985:I am new to the group and have just seen you have had an interview for northern on the 4th May, can i ask have you had any reply back as of yet with the outcome of the interview.
Many Thanks

 

[skyhigh]

I wasn't asking about whether they would leave it unfilled, more about whether they would skip skip someone that required a longer notice period.

They 100% would. If something comes up at short notice it's most likely it'll go to an internal candidate (assuming they can be released) as you don't need to worry about notice periods.

It's not quite as straightforward as just a simple chronological list though - as some depots might have a more urgent need, and test scores etc might be taken into account. So you could end up with someone who passed relatively recently 'leapfrogging' someone who has been in a talent pool for months based on those factors.

I'm a first hand example of this (albeit in the conductor role) - I had a short notice period in my previous job and applied to a depot with a higher requirement for staff and I got a start date within 2 weeks of passing the interview. Others on my course for smaller depots that were near establishment had waited up to 12 months for a start date.

 

[RailLady]

The question of long notice periods makes me wonder what would happen if they need someone at short notice. For instance, if a course is due to start in two weeks, but someone drops out and the TOC is looking for someone from the talent pool to step in. You're close to the top of the list, but you require 3 months notice for your current employer - would the TOC skip over you in favour of someone further down the list that can start sooner?

Everyone gets at minimum/maximum 3 months notice of provisional start dates. so that they can incorporate medicals and changes like someone dropping out. It takes time to process people through the recruitment and considerations of holidays, notice period etc are all taken into consideration.

 

[DriverEight]

Everyone gets at minimum/maximum 3 months notice of provisional start dates. so that they can incorporate medicals and changes like someone dropping out. It takes time to process people through the recruitment and considerations of holidays, notice period etc are all taken into consideration.

Which is it? Minimum of 3 months or maximum of 3 months? It can't be both

 

[CreamNCookies]

And what if the months have a different amount of days? (that's me being pedantic thereI know)

I suspect no one will truly know how long you get until you get offered something. I have heard of people walking into trainee driver jobs within a couple of months of passing everything.

I for one hope that I am one of these lucky ones who gets out of the pool very quickly - only time will tell.

 

[Nigell]

Everyone gets at minimum/maximum 3 months notice of provisional start dates. so that they can incorporate medicals and changes like someone dropping out. It takes time to process people through the recruitment and considerations of holidays, notice period etc are all taken into consideration.

This is the intention, but in all honesty a lot of the time does not happen. I know of people being given 3 months notice while others as little as 2/3 weeks.

 

[RailLady]

Which is it? Minimum of 3 months or maximum of 3 months? It can't be both

3 month notice. at most.

This is the intention, but in all honesty a lot of the time does not happen. I know of people being given 3 months notice while others as little as 2/3 weeks.

id be interested to know what depots and roles they are for, because it doesn't work like that in train crew.

And what if the months have a different amount of days? (that's me being pedantic thereI know)

I suspect no one will truly know how long you get until you get offered something. I have heard of people walking into trainee driver jobs within a couple of months of passing everything.

I for one hope that I am one of these lucky ones who gets out of the pool very quickly - only time will tell.

well its going to be atleast 90 days...

 

[CreamNCookies]

Time will tell.

 

[DriverEight]

3 month notice. at most.


id be interested to know what depots and roles they are for, because it doesn't work like that in train crew.


well its going to be atleast 90 days...

I'm not sure that it has to be "at least" 90 days. There's a post in this thread from a guy that had 2 weeks notice of a course. Also, there's another thread about how long the recruitment process has taken and people on that have claimed to have gone through the entire process, from application to starting date, in less than 90 days. Are you referring to Northern only, or TOCs in general?

 

[RailLady]

I'm not sure that it has to be "at least" 90 days. There's a post in this thread from a guy that had 2 weeks notice of a course. Also, there's another thread about how long the recruitment process has taken and people on that have claimed to have gone through the entire process, from application to starting date, in less than 90 days. Are you referring to Northern only, or TOCs in general?

Northern

 

[Intermodal]

be interested to know what depots and roles they are for, because it doesn't work like that in train crew.

I don't want to be disrespectful, but you speak with such authority and yet I personally know several examples of train crew being given both short notice start dates (less than a month) and start dates more than 3 months in the future. Admittedly it is not common, but perhaps it is better not to state something as fact if you are uncertain whether it is true or not?

 

[RailLady]

I don't want to be disrespectful, but you speak with such authority and yet I personally know several examples of train crew being given both short notice start dates (less than a month) and start dates more than 3 months in the future. Admittedly it is not common, but perhaps it is better not to state something as fact if you are uncertain whether it is true or not?

Im confirming what I know as someone who handles the process.

 

[Intermodal]

Im confirming what I know as someone who handles the process.

That's fair enough, and I am sure people are grateful for your input on here, but like I say, I do know several real life examples that are contrary to what you've posted above (as other posters have mentioned).

 

[RailLady]

That's fair enough, and I am sure people are grateful for your input on here, but like I say, I do know several real life examples that are contrary to what you've posted above (as other posters have mentioned).

I can only speak for the area I handle. Only in an exception circumstance would that happen, but look at it this way, medicals have to be booked, taken, process and come back and just the booking of an appointment can take 2 weeks. 3 months is the amount of time given to adequately inform people of what is coming up, and then when all is fine, results back in, people are offered.

 

[Comfy]

I can only speak for the area I handle. Only in an exception circumstance would that happen, but look at it this way, medicals have to be booked, taken, process and come back and just the booking of an appointment can take 2 weeks. 3 months is the amount of time given to adequately inform people of what is coming up, and then when all is fine, results back in, people are offered.

I think there is some confusion here over time scale from now to being offered a position versus notice period for an employer.
People can't hand in their notice until they have a contract in their hand and medical and references have come back fine, so their 3 month count down could not start until all that was completed.

 

[RailLady]

I think there is some confusion here over time scale from now to being offered a position versus notice period for an employer.
People can't hand in their notice until they have a contract in their hand and medical and references have come back fine, so their 3 month count down could not start until all that was completed.

If there is a start date in 3 months time, the candidate is usually given a provisional offer. A medical is booked & if the results come back fine, a final offer is made. Once a final offer is made, the expectation is that a candidate would hand there notice in, in line with their company policy.

 

[Comfy]

If there is a start date in 3 months time, the candidate is usually given a provisional offer. A medical is booked & if the results come back fine, a final offer is made. Once a final offer is made, the expectation is that a candidate would hand there notice in, in line with their company policy.

I think this is what driver 8 is asking, whether they would be given time from when the final offer is made to then give their employer 3 months notice. As handing it in with just a provisional offer is a massive risk.
That's how I've picked it up anyway. Maybe I've interpreted it wrong.

 

[RailLady]

I think this is what driver 8 is asking, whether they would be given time from when the final offer is made to then give their employer 3 months notice. As handing it in with just a provisional offer is a massive risk.
That's how I've picked it up anyway. Maybe I've interpreted it wrong.

There are exceptional circumstances where the notice from Northern is slightly more than 3 months. For example, if someone had a 3 month notice. However, most notice periods are between 2-6weeks, and the 3 month notice gives adequate time for the strong majority to have their notices handed in to their current employer.

I can understand why you all sound panicked but the recruitment process is mapped out to take into consideration exceptional circumstances. Its hard to say what those would be as they a dependant on the individual candidates circumstances and the business need.

 

[DriverEight]

I think this is what driver 8 is asking, whether they would be given time from when the final offer is made to then give their employer 3 months notice. As handing it in with just a provisional offer is a massive risk.
That's how I've picked it up anyway. Maybe I've interpreted it wrong.

What I was asking is in a scenario such as this...a course is arranged and fully booked for trainee drivers. Two weeks before the course is due to start, somebody drops out, and the TOC, naturally, wants somebody to take his/her place. The longest waiting person in the talent pool (driver A) needs to give his current employers 3 months notice, but somebody that's just joined the pool (driver B) only has to give 2 weeks notice. Would the TOC then.....

A. Contact driver A with an offer, basically saying if you're prepared to walk away from your current employer without working your notice, the place on the course is yours.

B. Skip past driver A and offer it to driver B because they know he's more likely to be able to start, bearing in mind that the clock is ticking.

Or C. Just run the course one person short, because there's simply not enough time to reorganize everything

 

[RailLady]

What I was asking is in a scenario such as this...a course is arranged and fully booked for trainee drivers. Two weeks before the course is due to start, somebody drops out, and the TOC, naturally, wants somebody to take his/her place. The longest waiting person in the talent pool (driver A) needs to give his current employers 3 months notice, but somebody that's just joined the pool (driver B) only has to give 2 weeks notice. Would the TOC then.....

A. Contact driver A with an offer, basically saying if you're prepared to walk away from your current employer without working your notice, the place on the course is yours.

B. Skip past driver A and offer it to driver B because they know he's more likely to be able to start, bearing in mind that the clock is ticking.

Or C. Just run the course one person short, because there's simply not enough time to reorganize everything

They would run the course one place short.

This is what I have been trying to explain. It is not possible to offer a course with 2 weeks left to the start of the course. a candidate needs to have a medical assessment.

Of course the company will want a full course and there will be pressure to fill the spot. So there will be multiple considerations that can happen if there was slightly longer notice, say 5/6 weeks. but how a recruiter decides this is far too complex to put into words.

No one should be forced to leave their current employer, just because the new one has a role to fill on short notice.

As mentioned above, there are exceptional circumstances for those with very long notice periods. however, these exceptional circumstances are dealt with on a case by case basis.

The best thing you can do, is contact the recruiter, explain your notice period and then go from there.

Maybe the next course isn't going to work due to your work commitment, but if there is a next course, and they are aware of the 3 month notice... then that is a good start!

 

[DriverEight]

They would run the course one place short.

This is what I have been trying to explain. It is not possible to offer a course with 2 weeks left to the start of the course. a candidate needs to have a medical assessment.

Of course the company will want a full course and there will be pressure to fill the spot. So there will be multiple considerations that can happen if there was slightly longer notice, say 5/6 weeks. but how a recruiter decides this is far too complex to put into words.

No one should be forced to leave their current employer, just because the new one has a role to fill on short notice.

As mentioned above, there are exceptional circumstances for those with very long notice periods. however, these exceptional circumstances are dealt with on a case by case basis.

The best thing you can do, is contact the recruiter, explain your notice period and then go from there.

Maybe the next course isn't going to work due to your work commitment, but if there is a next course, and they are aware of the 3 month notice... then that is a good start!

I appreciate everything you say here, except for one thing. I don't think it's a question of forcing someone to leave their current employer, it's more about giving them the choice. There's no doubt that many people are VERY keen (or even desperate) to get onto the railway. Some may have been in talent pools before, and will not want to pass up any opportunity that comes their way. They may be more than willing to abandon their current employer and face the consequences. There's also a chance that their employer may be perfectly willing to let them go without working any notice.

However, I appreciate your point that it can't be done. I ask these questions simply to gain a greater understanding of the processes involved, not to start a debate

 

[Val3ntine]

Getting slightly off topic now and we’re straying from the original subject of the Northern trainee driver vacancies. Let’s leave the notice period discussions where it is.

Thank you

 

[Shary Bobbins]

Morning. I applied on 28th March and haven't received anything yet, not even a holding email. Is anyone else in the same position? I can't help but think it mustn't be good news.

 

[DriverEight]

Morning. I applied on 28th March and haven't received anything yet, not even a holding email. Is anyone else in the same position? I can't help but think it mustn't be good news.

Yes, I'm the same. I've logged on to the northern website and it still says application under consideration. I've pretty much given up on it. It's the second time I've applied to them and been completely ignored.

 

[Nigell]

Try to be patient people, it’s understandable that your frustrated but do be mindful that there are literally hundreds of people they have to sift through. Northern operate more services than any toc in the north so obviously have more vacancies to offer, sift, interview.....ect. The people at Hr for Northern do a great job in my opinion, I say this in reflection to how I was dealt with as an external as well as obviously later, an internal. Just remember, all these applications, along with all the follow ups chasing applications. As many have said, railway recruitment is very slow in genral also I would guess that Northern get more applications than any other toc in the north. They are working their best, hang tight.

 

[Shary Bobbins]

I've pretty much given up on it. It's the second time I've applied to them and been completely ignored.

Aaaaw no that's bad form. Its my first time applying to Northern but I know from previous applications to other TOC's the process can be drawn out. I hope to hear either way though.

The people at Hr for Northern do a great job in my opinion, I say this in reflection to how I was dealt with as an external as well as obviously later, an internal.

I have a lot of respect for anyone working in a HR function. It can be a very thankless job so its good to hear you've had good experiences - I hope you told them that . I can imagine the recruitment teams for any TOC are crazy busy, especially in the current climate.

 

[Tallpaul1606]

Received an email at the weekend saying Your application is now under consideration and is being screened.

 

[Sb80]

Me I’m still waiting !! But it keeps me hopeful. No news is better than the knock back. I applied on the 19th

Received an email at the weekend saying Your application is now under consideration and is being screened.

What date did you apply ? Just wondering if they’re doing them in order of receipt or if the sifting is all just random too

 

[Tallpaul1606]

I applied 26th March

 

[DriverEight]

Received an email at the weekend saying Your application is now under consideration and is being screened.

It's a bizarre situation when some are just being told that they're under consideration and yet some others have already been interviewed and passed the DMI