Northern Trains new franchise.

[Glenn1969]

I think Judith Blake is a Leeds City Region voice which also covers Craven, Harrogate and York

 

[Yorkshire222]

How does the changeover work? Presumably all the staff contracts are transferred over as-is. What about the trains? Did Northern buy all the recent new trains or are they on hire? If the former they're going to want their money back. There must be other things that belong to Arriva too - some of the computer systems will probably be connected to other Arriva systems and they're not going to want the new company using those.

 

[158756]

The experience of TfW suggests it will be a long time before there are noticable improvements. Without control of the infrastructure and the long lead times for new rolling stock there are very few quick fixes. Cleaning is one of them, the fare structure is another. Cutting fares, as TfW has done in north Wales and on some of the valley services, is something people, particularly from deprived post-industrial areas, notice and appreciate.

TfW can reduce fares because the Welsh Government have a multi-billion-pound budget to play with - no one involved in TfN has anything like the money needed. It's highly questionable whether any cut would be sustainable anyway with the franchise already needing astronomical levels of subsidies.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't know the details, but Wales' freedom to vary fares will come with strings.
Any loss of rail fare revenue will have to be balanced from another Welsh budget.
It will be like prescription charges and student grants - someone else in Wales has to pay for the benefits.

One of the reasons why the North hasn't got a separate rail budget is that there is no wider devolved budget agreement as there is for Wales and Scotland.
It's at the heart of the English devolution debate.

 

[yorkie]

What about the trains? Did Northern buy all the recent new trains or are they on hire?

Train operating companies (TOCs) lease stock from rolling stock companies (ROSCOs) and the agreements simply transfer across.

 

[Mogster]

Northern has a chronic shortage of diesel stock, I don’t see how deep cleaning can be done on these units without (more) service disruption. Surely unless you have an army of cleaners it’d take days to clean a 150 properly with the honkin state they’re in.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I've noticed today that Northern haven't erased all 'Arriva' signage. Staff are still wearing 'by Arriva' uniform and a couple of the units I've seen today are still displaying Arriva. Back in December, Avanti were eager to get any reference to Virgin removed by the time they took the whelm of the WCML.

CJ

 

[Grumpy Git]

I've noticed today that Northern haven't erased all 'Arriva' signage. Staff are still wearing 'by Arriva' uniform and a couple of the units I've seen today are still displaying Arriva. Back in December, Avanti were eager to get any reference to Virgin removed by the time they took the whelm of the WCML.

CJ

A lot of booking websites still refer to Avanti WC as Virgin Trains.

 

[Domh245]

I've noticed today that Northern haven't erased all 'Arriva' signage. Staff are still wearing 'by Arriva' uniform and a couple of the units I've seen today are still displaying Arriva. Back in December, Avanti were eager to get any reference to Virgin removed by the time they took the whelm of the WCML.

CJ

Avanti of course were/are launching a completely new brand whilst taking over from an entity that is very protective of their brand, so you'd expect the branding to be removed pretty sharpish. Northern is keeping the existing brand (whilst not really being too fussed about it at the same time), so there's less urgency to the 'de-branding'

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Has any announcement been made about a new Senior Management Team for Northern Trains ?
If the first task of the board is to produce a turnround plan in 100 days, rather than direct the business on a day-to-day basis, it is difficult to see why anything should change in that time. (Other than all the things which would have changed anyway such as introduction of 769s and the remaining 195s/331s, withdrawal of remaining pacers, completing outstanding training, etc.)

The Dept of Transport site also reaffirms

Transport for the North will continue to co-manage the franchise and monitor performance alongside the Department for Transport through the Rail North Partnership

Seems like a number of groups have now got there finger in the pie. Furthermore along with recent announcement that HS2 phase 2b needs to be co-ordinated with the Midlands and the North its hard to see how anything significant will change other than a reduction in services through Castlefield and claim they've restored punctuality.

 

[londonmidland]

It’s good to hear a deep clean will be taking place.

Northern un-refurbished Class 158s are in a right state and reminds me of Regional Railways in terms of interior looks.

 

[JaJaWa]

Now it will say Northern by Gov

Northern bye Arriva!

 

[johntea]

I've noticed today that Northern haven't erased all 'Arriva' signage. Staff are still wearing 'by Arriva' uniform and a couple of the units I've seen today are still displaying Arriva. Back in December, Avanti were eager to get any reference to Virgin removed by the time they took the whelm of the WCML.

CJ

Don't hold your breath, it'll take months to sort out the sticky labels like when Arriva took over!

 

[Grumpy Git]

The new 195s are actually cleaner on the outside than the inside.

I wonder how many of the scruffy buggers who leave their crap everywhere and put their feet on the seats actually bother to buy a ticket?

 

[Class83]

Much of that is outside their hands of course.

Cleaning and recruitment should be within their control, the others will need government intervention, but that's roughly what they need to push for.

Simple things; trains which turn up, which have enough seats (or at least standing space) for passengers, which run on time, which are in a reasonable state of repair and cleanliness. That's how they will get people out of cars. Do these before reopening lines or trying to cram more services down the existing lines.

 

[mspljd1990]

It’s good to hear a deep clean will be taking place.

Northern un-refurbished Class 158s are in a right state and reminds me of Regional Railways in terms of interior looks.

I actually prefer the seats on the un-refurbished 158s to the new ones, way less uncomfortable.

 

[323 Class]

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/disruption/266
I blame the C Virus.

Sunday... shortage of train crew.... no change yet then.

 

[londonmidland]

I actually prefer the seats on the un-refurbished 158s to the new ones, way less uncomfortable.

Unfortunately these were the Chapman Class 156 style seats.

 

[Carlisle]

Northern has a chronic shortage of diesel stock, I don’t see how deep cleaning can be done on these units without (more) service disruption.

It’ll probably be done mainly on nights although perhaps also on days to units held on depot anyway for other maintenance reasons

 

[geoffk]

Short term:

1 - start the deep cleaning process (although this is already starting to sound like a government buzz phrase akin to get Brexit done and may not actually be a proper deep clean as that would take a fair amount of time)

2 - put a proper end of day cleaning regime in place, otherwise the trains will soon need another deep clean

3 - a quick mod to the 195/331s to give them more, bigger, and more obvious bins

4 - reintroduce infra-shift cleaning at major terminals

5 - decide whether social media is a useful tool for keeping customers informed or something reserved for inane quizzes

6 - if the answer to 5 is the former, give the social media team better guidance on what’s expected and hold them to account if they don’t do as expected

7 - be honest about shortforming. Changing the expected train length from 3 to 2 so the train stops technically being shortformed isn’t good enough

My impression is that train crew duties are too tight (i.e. insufficient time allowed between trains) so that delays just snowball; also that drivers and guards don't stay together for a shift. Changing that implies hiring and training more staff.

 

[HullRailMan]

No voice I can see for South Yorkshire or East Riding either. Why is Sheffield Metro Mayor Dan Jarvis not on there I wonder

That was my first thought too. However, in all fairness, I’d say that East Yorkshire has done very well in terms of rolling stock changes and service increases from Arriva. The bigger issue around here is TPE.

 

[Mathew S]

The experience of TfW suggests it will be a long time before there are noticable improvements. Without control of the infrastructure and the long lead times for new rolling stock there are very few quick fixes. Cleaning is one of them, the fare structure is another. Cutting fares, as TfW has done in north Wales and on some of the valley services, is something people, particularly from deprived post-industrial areas, notice and appreciate.

I'm not sure cutting fares is - or even ought to be - on the cards. The franchise is enough of a financial black hole already, and fares like £111 a month for unlimited rail travel anywhere in Greater Manchester, or £114 on Merseyside, are staggeringly good value for money already, in my view. I'm not saying there's not other journeys where value for money isn't as good, just that fare cuts might not necessarily need to be top of the list.

 

[Mathew S]

Does anyone else find it odd that the Director of a supposedly independent passenger watchdog will now simultaneously be on the board of one of the biggest and ‘poorest’ train operating units?

Extremely disappointing there’s no representation for anyone north of Darlington where for many of us Northern are the only TOC in town (Tyne Valley). It’s quite shocking that over 163 miles of the network have zero representation.

Instead we’ve ended up with a board of those who shout loudest. Rent a quote Houchen who has no discernible qualifications dictating direction for a TOC. Lord help us.

It's not a management board though, is it, it's just about being seen to have some sort of local, democratic oversight at a strategic level. The people on that board don't need knowledge of the rail industry, it's not why they're there. In fact, I would argue it's good that they're not limited by the sometimes entrenched and inflexible views that seem to come with long-serving experience on the railway - they might be able to be a better voice for passengers and actually stimulate some change and innovation.

Or any voice for Cumbria, Lancashire or North Yorkshire for that matter.
Being charitable, perhaps Louise Gittins, Vice chair of TFN, and Jools Townsend, CEO of the Association of Community Rail Partnerships, are supposed to represent the interests of all the non-metropolitan areas as well as South Yorkshire and Tyneside ?

Yeah, I agree it's a shame that there isn't more representation of especially more rural areas.

 

[hwl]

I'm not sure cutting fares is - or even ought to be - on the cards. The franchise is enough of a financial black hole already, and fares like £111 a month for unlimited rail travel anywhere in Greater Manchester, or £114 on Merseyside, are staggeringly good value for money already, in my view. I'm not saying there's not other journeys where value for money isn't as good, just that fare cuts might not necessarily need to be top of the list.

The london equivalent is £253 / month.

 

[DimTim]

One of the main issues is overcrowding!
Cutting fares to attract more patronage with the current stock shortage is counter productive?

 

[urbophile]

The london equivalent is £253 / month.

Why should Merseyside, where more than half the local routes are run by Merseyrail and not Northern, be more expensive than Manchester where virtually all of them are Northern?

 

[londonmidland]

Slightly off topic but tomorrow could be ‘interesting’ through the Castlefield Corridor. WCML services being diverted due to a landslip at Weaver Junction.

Network Rail are already stating that there will be disruption through central Manchester.

 

[Geeves]

In regards to the question on Arriva and the computer systems literally nothing changed from the Abellio days except the end of the company email address and being connected to a different email address book. Also no one has arranged the new uniforms yet and it's very cold so asking people to go out with out coats probably wouldn't go down well!

So far as the last week is concerned all the emails from the directors have been from Richard Allen. David Brown seems to have gone to radio silence.

 

[rdlover777]

will the new franchise still run under Northern until a new operator can be found?

 

[BigCj34]

I'm not sure cutting fares is - or even ought to be - on the cards. The franchise is enough of a financial black hole already, and fares like £111 a month for unlimited rail travel anywhere in Greater Manchester, or £114 on Merseyside, are staggeringly good value for money already, in my view. I'm not saying there's not other journeys where value for money isn't as good, just that fare cuts might not necessarily need to be top of the list.

Northern may have been many things but can't say they were expensive, or at least nothing that a split ticket couldn't fix. The Arriva franchise actually introduced advance fares on routes which didn't have them.