Northern TVM not offering Merseyrail Daysaver

[xotGD]

Checking out the Rovers section on a Northern TVM at Leeds today, and while Merseytravel Saveaway was offered, there was no sign of a Daysaver on the list of options available.

Does anyone know why? Is this deliberate or an oversight?

Looks like I will have to wait until I reach the Merseyrail network before I buy my ticket.

 

[CyrusWuff]

They're setup in the fares data as a normal ticket rather than a Day Ranger. Here's an example from Birkenhead Hamilton Square: https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BKQ&dest=I375&period=20240928

You might be able to buy one using the "Quick Tickets" option (which bypasses the journey planner.) Failing that, a Ticket Office or member of on-train staff should be able to sell one.

 

[lfc84]

Don't buy a merseyrail day saver. Instead get a merseytravel saveaway

 

[xotGD]

Don't buy a merseyrail day saver. Instead get a merseytravel saveaway

Why? I only want to use trains, not buses or the ferry.

 

[lfc84]

For 10p extra you get a hell of lot more flexibility

Day Saver

Make as many trips as you like throughout the day on a single day saver ticket for cheap daily travel.

www.merseyrail.org

Saveaway Tickets & Prices | Merseytravel

The Merseytravel Saveaway ticket is a one-day, off-peak ticket for buses, trains and Mersey Ferries.

www.merseytravel.gov.uk

 

[xotGD]

They're setup in the fares data as a normal ticket rather than a Day Ranger. Here's an example from Birkenhead Hamilton Square: https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BKQ&dest=I375&period=20240928

You might be able to buy one using the "Quick Tickets" option (which bypasses the journey planner.) Failing that, a Ticket Office or member of on-train staff should be able to sell one.

So if, for example, I say that I want to travel from Southport to Chester it ought to come up as a ticket option?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So if, for example, I say that I want to travel from Southport to Chester it ought to come up as a ticket option?

Would this be the one? If so, what's its actual validity?

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[cool110]

Would this be the one? If so, what's its actual validity?

Yes, unlimited off-peak travel on the Merseyrail Northern Line and Wirral Line.

 

[Spaceship323]

Yes, unlimited off-peak travel on the Merseyrail Northern Line and Wirral Line.

Just get an allzones daysaver from the Merseyrail ticket office when you're changing trains, it will be marked e.g. Headbolt lane to merseyrail network

 

[Djgr]

Just get an allzones daysaver from the Merseyrail ticket office when you're changing trains, it will be marked e.g. Headbolt lane to merseyrail network

The Saveaway is also valid on Northern, TfW, East Midlands, Transpennine, WMT over a much wider area for a few extra pence (including Rainford to Headbolt Lane in above example).

It is NOT the same as the Merseyrail ticket with the buses and ferries added.

 

[185]

Checking out the Rovers section on a Northern TVM at Leeds today, and while Merseytravel Saveaway was offered, there was no sign of a Daysaver on the list of options available.

Does anyone know why? Is this deliberate or an oversight?

Looks like I will have to wait until I reach the Merseyrail network before I buy my ticket.

Well done Northern for hiding that shoddy, revenue -grab, one-operator only, 10p cheaper daysaver ticket.

They actually got something right

 

[CyrusWuff]

Well done Northern for hiding that shoddy, revenue -grab, one-operator only, 10p cheaper daysaver ticket.

They actually got something right

Not deliberately, it's purely down to how they're setup in the fares data.

 

[danm14]

Not deliberately, it's purely down to how they're setup in the fares data.

Which I believe was done to allow them to be sold by Merseyrail and TfW (then ATW) ticket machines, which don't offer rangers and rovers.

The all-area ticket is in the fares data as a one-way ticket from any station on the Northern or Wirral line to the notional destination of NORTHWIRRALLINES.

The single area tickets are in the fares data as one-way tickets from any station on the Northern or Wirral line in area X to the notional destination of ME ONLY AREA X.

 

[xotGD]

OK folks, you have convinced me. I'll splash out the extra 10p, buy my ticket from a Northern TVM and maybe even take a Ferry Across the Mersey.

Thank you for advice.

 

[Red Rover]

Day savers are incredibly popular with locals though, the reason they came in was so revenue went solely to MR and not split, makes sense and as I said they’re incredibly popular, off peak from the busiest out stations like Kirkby, Hunts Cross, Waterloo and others they’re more popular than saveaways.

 

[Djgr]

Day savers are incredibly popular with locals though, the reason they came in was so revenue went solely to MR and not split, makes sense and as I said they’re incredibly popular, off peak from the busiest out stations like Kirkby, Hunts Cross, Waterloo and others they’re more popular than saveaways.

Not really. Merseyrail have done their best to confuse people who don't realise that for the sake of a few pence they are receiving a far inferior product.

Merseyrail is not owned by the local community and therefore there is no benefit whatsoever in them receiving a greater share.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Not really. Merseyrail have done their best to confuse people who don't realise that for the sake of a few pence they are receiving a far inferior product.

Merseyrail is not owned by the local community and therefore there is no benefit whatsoever in them receiving a greater share.

Merseyrail is controlled by the local community though, as it is a concession arrangement that is micromanaged by Liverpool City Region and funded by the local taxpayers.

People quite simply do not want to pay 10p more when they do not need to - almost all passengers will be simply making an off peak, day return journey from their part of the region into central Liverpool, no changes, no multiple journeys, and the prospect of using a bus or ferry would be laughable for them.

It's not good value to pay the small extra amount if you are simply never going to use it.

You even get odd situations in the TfL Oyster area where people are actually prepared to pay more because they find something more convenient or just a nicer experience.

The vast majority of 16-25 and 26-30 Railcard holders in London do not add their discount to an Oyster card - they will just use Debit/Credit card Contactless to tap in and out because it's quicker and simpler in their view, without any of the topping up/linking auto top up etc.

It goes to show that what people consider "value" does not always hang on the price.

 

[Red Rover]

Exactly, regulars won’t spend more than they have to, why would they? This was done so MR can get 100% of the revenue, it’s been incredibly popular, add to that their MR only metro season tickets, it’s under cutting in its most simplest and effective form.

 

[Djgr]

Merseyrail is controlled by the local community though, as it is a concession arrangement that is micromanaged by Liverpool City Region and funded by the local taxpayers.

People quite simply do not want to pay 10p more when they do not need to - almost all passengers will be simply making an off peak, day return journey from their part of the region into central Liverpool, no changes, no multiple journeys, and the prospect of using a bus or ferry would be laughable for them.

It's not good value to pay the small extra amount if you are simply never going to use it.

You even get odd situations in the TfL Oyster area where people are actually prepared to pay more because they find something more convenient or just a nicer experience.

The vast majority of 16-25 and 26-30 Railcard holders in London do not add their discount to an Oyster card - they will just use Debit/Credit card Contactless to tap in and out because it's quicker and simpler in their view, without any of the topping up/linking auto top up etc.

It goes to show that what people consider "value" does not always hang on the price.

Merseyrail take the revenue "risk" and so they are the sole ones that benefit from ORCATs raiding.

As stated above, the Saveaway is not simply the Daysaver with buses added.

In the original post, it appeared that they were unaware that they could use the Saveaway from Rainford whilst the Merseyrail ticket is only valid from Headbolt Lane. That in itself would justify the purchase of a Saveaway over the Day Saver.

I am sure I share the frustrations of many of this forum that "scam" tickets and inappropriate TOC behaviour always find some support.

 

[gray1404]

The issue of Merseyrail comes when somebody is only making a single journey. They feel ripped off when they have to buy a day-saver. This happened to a friend of mine last night who was traveling from Liverpool to Formby one way.

The other issue is that the day saver tickets are no longer given railcard discounts. I really think it would have been better for merseyrail to retain their post-930 am off peak day returns and also have the option of a day-saver ticket.

 

[Sonic1234]

You even get odd situations in the TfL Oyster area where people are actually prepared to pay more because they find something more convenient or just a nicer experience.

Also, people using contactless on Thameslink where it extends beyond the London zones when Super Off Peak weekend tickets are available. Unless they are making a single journey or staying overnight they're spending more.

 

[JBuchananGB]

A Daysaver is cheaper than an Anytime single Liverpool to Formby, but Railcard discount can be applied to the Anytime fare, not the Daysaver.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Some of the positions on this forum are utterly nuts.

Train operator introduces fare that is marginally cheaper, and that is very popular and is perfectly acceptable for 99% of passengers. Train company also makes it available online unlike many other rovers/rangers, even if this is in a slightly weird format. Forum complains it's not "value" enough.

Most passengers are simply not going on to other TOCs, buses or ferries - again, they're just getting a ticket from their local Merseyrail station into Liverpool (or second, Chester). A sizeable number of these tickets will be discarded after a one way journey because of the fare structure making them cheaper than a single.

Try removing the ticket completely, and I bet that the headlines which would appear about the loss of the10p saving means a lot more to people than you think.

 

[Watershed]

The vast majority of 16-25 and 26-30 Railcard holders in London do not add their discount to an Oyster card - they will just use Debit/Credit card Contactless to tap in and out because it's quicker and simpler in their view, without any of the topping up/linking auto top up etc.

I suspect the vast majority of such Railcard holders simply have no idea they can even be applied to Oyster, as it's not a particularly well-publicised benefit.

I know of a family friend who found out at the age of 29 that he could have had his Railcard on an Oyster card for the last 13 years. Needless to say, he was not happy at having overpaid hundreds of not thousands of pounds for his off-peak travel during that time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those ten pence are an excellent insurance policy against the highly likely event of a 777 sitting down, so one can simply take the bus home instead.

I'd be interested to know the City Region's view on these tickets, as to whether they support their existence or rue the day they weren't precise enough in their contract to ensure they couldn't compete with the properly integrated arrangement.

One would mind less if the discount were substantial, that said. And the City Region haven't helped by adding the complexity of the Metro Card.

 

[Red Rover]

I agree with the above (post Tazi Hupefi)
If someone is buying the appropriate fare that is at the cheapest price there really isn’t any issue.

Those ten pence are an excellent insurance policy against the highly likely event of a 777 sitting down, so one can simply take the bus home instead.

I'd be interested to know the City Region's view on these tickets, as to whether they support their existence or rue the day they weren't precise enough in their contract to ensure they couldn't compete with the properly integrated arrangement.

One would mind less if the discount were substantial, that said. And the City Region haven't helped by adding the complexity of the Metro Card.

1000’s are sold a day to people who would differ, if you’re going if you solely need and can only use MR and if it’s cheaper why buy a saveaway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

1000’s are sold a day to people who would differ, if you’re going if you solely need and can only use MR and if it’s cheaper why buy a saveaway.

I always buy a Saveaway because (a) I am a strong proponent of integrated urban transport and do not want to support Merseyrail Electrics (2002) Ltd's money grab, and (b) because 10p is a superb value price for an insurance policy against the railway falling to bits, allowing a bus home instead at no extra cost.

But that wasn't my question, really. My question was whether the PTE (or whatever it's called now) supports the existence of these fares or rues the day they weren't stricter in specifying the contract to avoid them coming into existence.

 

[Red Rover]

I always buy a Saveaway because (a) I am a strong proponent of integrated urban transport and do not want to support Merseyrail Electrics (2002) Ltd's money grab, and (b) because 10p is a superb value price for an insurance policy against the railway falling to bits, allowing a bus home instead at no extra cost.

But that wasn't my question, really. My question was whether the PTE (or whatever it's called now) supports the existence of these fares or rues the day they weren't stricter in specifying the contract to avoid them coming into existence.

rues the day they weren't stricter in specifying the contract to avoid them coming into existence.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I always buy a Saveaway because (a) I am a strong proponent of integrated urban transport and do not want to support Merseyrail Electrics (2002) Ltd's money grab, and (b) because 10p is a superb value price for an insurance policy against the railway falling to bits, allowing a bus home instead at no extra cost.

But that wasn't my question, really. My question was whether the PTE (or whatever it's called now) supports the existence of these fares or rues the day they weren't stricter in specifying the contract to avoid them coming into existence.

I'd imagine every party to the Saveaway and PTE products is quite happy with the Merseyrail only product - because the revenue distribution split between all the remaining operators (including bus/ferry) has increased or at least been balanced, whilst Merseyrail's share has decreased.

Merseytravel is very good at counting passengers, and carries out extensive census surveys, as well as using all the ticket barrier etc data to make sure that the distribution calculation reflects the reality of customer patterns.

Merseyrail may have gained from their own day saver product, but they lose from the Saveaway share. I suspect Merseyrail are obviously still in a better revenue position overall, but their loss elsewhere is often overlooked.

 

[AntoniC]

Those ten pence are an excellent insurance policy against the highly likely event of a 777 sitting down, so one can simply take the bus home instead.

I'd be interested to know the City Region's view on these tickets, as to whether they support their existence or rue the day they weren't precise enough in their contract to ensure they couldn't compete with the properly integrated arrangement.

One would mind less if the discount were substantial, that said. And the City Region haven't helped by adding the complexity of the Metro Card.

Totally agree with you.
My daily commute is Southport to Moorfields and back and I quite happily pay £6.30 per day for my Saveaway precisely in case the Northern Line falls over and I then have to get the 47 or X2 home which would cost me an extra £2.
So far this has happened to me once (and I am in the office 2 days a week so for me it makes since).