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Northern Unit Refurbishments

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RailUK Forums

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Does anybody know whether the class 333 units have any DOO modifications whilst being overhauled at Holbeck and Neville Hill (such as the installation of train cameras and cab monitors for driver door operation. Moving the door opening buttons to the drivers cab etc)

They have not (the driving cabs already feature door control buttons).
 

Skiptonjohn

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I am surprised that no external body side cameras are fitted. If the 333 units become DOO. How will the driver see whether the doors are clear to close, especially at curved platform stations like Shipley and Keighley?
 

Bletchleyite

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I am surprised that no external body side cameras are fitted. If the 333 units become DOO. How will the driver see whether the doors are clear to close, especially at curved platform stations like Shipley and Keighley?

There is no current firm plan that I am aware of for any existing units to be operated DOO and no work has been done to any such units for that purpose (though I think the old DOO thread mooted that options were being looked at).
 

Killingworth

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Good to see some cascaded stock out and about. Former Great Western 150129 on Sheffield - Manchester Piccadilly and Scotrail 170453 on Nottingham - Leeds pass at Dore & Totley this morning. Both improvements on usual stock, whether refurbished or not.

Recently both have seen Pacers rostered, the Hope Valley as routine, the Leeds - Nottingham presumably in emergency!IMG_20190123_112127.jpg
 

superkev

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Good to see some cascaded stock out and about. Former Great Western 150129 on Sheffield - Manchester Piccadilly and Scotrail 170453 on Nottingham - Leeds pass at Dore & Totley this morning. Both improvements on usual stock, whether refurbished or not.

Recently both have seen Pacers rostered, the Hope Valley as routine, the Leeds - Nottingham presumably in emergency!View attachment 58292
Was the 170 in service or just training the Sheffeld crews.
K
 

superkev

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I hear the cascaded Scotrail 158s are not there finest and in poor condition. Aren't units coming off lease supposed to be in similar condition to the start or will Scotrail face some delapidations charges.
Credit to Northern who seem to be still looking after there pacers despite scrap being there next destination.
K
 

Killingworth

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Was the 170 in service or just training the Sheffeld crews.
K

That is a very good question. I'd assumed it was in service. My picture is timed at 11.21.

The 150 is this one; http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y54756/2019/01/23/advanced

The 170 I'd assumed to be this one running a little late from the timetable, but it seems it wasn't because it was cancelled - or was it? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y50775/2019/01/23/advanced

The service down from Leeds had also been cancelled. Did a door problem pass through Dore?

Ah ha, this is the 170, ECS, not a 158; Doncaster - Nottingham then as seen Nottingham - Doncaster
 
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SC318250

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I hear the cascaded Scotrail 158s are not there finest and in poor condition. Aren't units coming off lease supposed to be in similar condition to the start or will Scotrail face some delapidations charges.
Credit to Northern who seem to be still looking after there pacers despite scrap being there next destination.
K

You ought to have seen the state of the 158s especially 782/867-871 when they arrived at Scotrail. 786/789 were the best out the lot.
 

Jozhua

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Rode on a 156 today that was in very poor condition (Interior looked straight out of the early 90's!)...

There were a couple of guards on the train when it arrived in Piccadilly and one asked the other where the disabled ramp was and the other didn't know as he hadn't been on the unit before. Commented that it had just come down from Scotland...
 

anamyd

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Rode on a 156 today that was in very poor condition (Interior looked straight out of the early 90's!)...

There were a couple of guards on the train when it arrived in Piccadilly and one asked the other where the disabled ramp was and the other didn't know as he hadn't been on the unit before. Commented that it had just come down from Scotland...
maybe they should check for such things / make crew familiar before putting them into service. until I saw the ex ScotRail bit I was thinking what you described about the general condition sounded a bit like 459/460!
 

palmersears

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One thing I noticed on my refurbished 156 yesterday was the inconsistent spelling of 'Manchester Piccadilly'. The scrolling destination present throughout was 'Manchester Picc' (Which is just plain lazy when you've a scrolling PIS), whilst when announcing the final stop it went for 'Manchester Piccadilly'.
 

simon7929

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maybe they should check for such things / make crew familiar before putting them into service. until I saw the ex ScotRail bit I was thinking what you described about the general condition sounded a bit like 459/460!


Yeah it is the Porterbrook units that tend to be in an appalling state. I was on 156441 on Tuesday night and it's in a shocking state both internally and externally. The Angel ones despite having a recent refurb (if that's what is classed as one) are now starting to look a bit scruffy. At the start of the franchise Arriva said refurbished trains would be 'as good as new' something I would certainly beg to differ on.
 

anamyd

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One thing I noticed on my refurbished 156 yesterday was the inconsistent spelling of 'Manchester Piccadilly'. The scrolling destination present throughout was 'Manchester Picc' (Which is just plain lazy when you've a scrolling PIS), whilst when announcing the final stop it went for 'Manchester Piccadilly'.
I'm guessing the destination is entered "manually" (once) whereas the calling points are from the "standard" CIS database like Manchester Picc, Birmingham Intl etc
 

anamyd

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Yeah it is the Porterbrook units that tend to be in an appalling state. I was on 156441 on Tuesday night and it's in a shocking state both internally and externally. The Angel ones despite having a recent refurb (if that's what is classed as one) are now starting to look a bit scruffy. At the start of the franchise Arriva said refurbished trains would be 'as good as new' something I would certainly beg to differ on.
the "funny" thing is 460/459 were quote-on-quote "refurbished" under Northern Rail Serco-Abellio in the 2000s I'm guessing, so the dark blue stripy seat covers fitted without the seat bases (some loose) or padding (partially gone) replaced (and some broken fold down tables in the "airline" seating), "new" light wood effect tables, original grimy toilet, dirty panels, "new" carpet but which is manky nowadays, and the Northern random fluorescent light tube generator produced a lovely mix of Philips and Osram.

In what way do the recent Arriva Northern refurbs look scruffy...? Is it that cloth they use on the seats that likes to pick up dirt...?
 

Mathew S

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In what way do the recent Arriva Northern refurbs look scruffy...? Is it that cloth they use on the seats that likes to pick up dirt...?
The white paint has dirt and scuffs (and on the outside of the units it just looks dirty). The floors are rarely if ever cleaned properly. The windows are scratched and unclean. And, yes, the seats are often stained. My view is that it's simple penny-pinching. More time and effort put into actually keeping the things clean would make a world of difference.
 

anamyd

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The white paint has dirt and scuffs (and on the outside of the units it just looks dirty). The floors are rarely if ever cleaned properly. The windows are scratched and unclean. And, yes, the seats are often stained. My view is that it's simple penny-pinching. More time and effort put into actually keeping the things clean would make a world of difference.
I hope they at least look after the brand new trains...
 

simon7929

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They just don't get cleaned frequently enough. The dirt grinds in and is difficult to remove when left for months between heavy cleans. So becomes a permanent fixture.

The Angel sets that were refurbished over the last two years didn't have the carpets replaced nor the seat cushions. The seat backs were not painted and are in poor condition due to their age with etched markings left through vandalism. The cabs were left untouched also during the refurb. We work ScotRail and Northern 156s. The difference in the recent refurbs between the two is night and day.
 

Mathew S

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Interestingly, well not really but you know what I mean, I saw a 156 still in First ScotRail livery run through Manchester Oxford Road this afternoon. It looked like something out of a kids trainset that had been dropped in a muddy puddle.
 

anamyd

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The Angel sets that were refurbished over the last two years didn't have the carpets replaced nor the seat cushions. The seat backs were not painted and are in poor condition due to their age with etched markings left through vandalism. The cabs were left untouched also during the refurb.
What was touched...?!
 

anamyd

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Interestingly, well not really but you know what I mean, I saw a 156 still in First ScotRail livery run through Manchester Oxford Road this afternoon. It looked like something out of a kids trainset that had been dropped in a muddy puddle.
:lol:
 

simon7929

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Interestingly, well not really but you know what I mean, I saw a 156 still in First ScotRail livery run through Manchester Oxford Road this afternoon. It looked like something out of a kids trainset that had been dropped in a muddy puddle.

Yeah we got the unrefurbished sets off ScotRail. They will be refurbished under Northern and will get the new style seats fitted. They still have the original seats from the late 80s.
 

387star

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Do the older northern units hsve protective film over the glass to prevent scratching?
377s do
 

anamyd

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The interior and exterior got a lick of paint and a new toilet and PIS system fitted. However some sets had the new toilet and PIS system fitted already under the previous Northern.
New toilet and PIS system just sounds like PRM mods (Persons with Reduced Mobility) - do they have the door sounders / obstruction detectors and external dot matrix destination displays as well...? Odd that the only other thing they would touch is paint
 

anamyd

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only in Northernland are ironing boards an improvement :lol:
Fabulous :)
Had a go on the fully refurbished 158 a few weeks ago (I forget the unit number) which had similar seats to that and they were the most comfortable I've experienced on Northern by some margin.
 

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