Northern Unit Refurbishments

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by darloscott, 3 Apr 2016.

  1. TheNekomancer

    TheNekomancer Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    I saw a 144 "Evo" when I was at Brough about a month ago, is that related? seems a bit weird to do those up when its being replaced soon
     
  2. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

    Messages:
    7,452
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    That was in the old Northern Franchise, was a porterbrook funded refurb to demonstrate pacers could be made DDA compliant.
     
  3. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

    Messages:
    2,068
    Joined:
    29 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Tracy Island
    And then it's been written into every franchise that they must be withdrawn before 1/1/2020
     
  4. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

    Messages:
    9,657
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2012
    Location:
    Another planet...
    The obvious home for it would be on the Cardiff Bay shuttle, up until the South Wales Metro takes whatever shape it ends up with. You'd probably want a second one though, which doesn't currently exist.

    Despite being the only Pacer fit for the post-2020 railway, it probably won't be wanted by any preservationists for that very reason. That is unless a preserved railway wants to actually provide a public service onto the 'big railway', such as Swanage to Wareham or Bishop's Lydeard to Taunton.
     
  5. Andyh82

    Andyh82 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,326
    Joined:
    19 May 2014
    Northern Have tweeted today that 50% of trains have now been refurbished.
     
  6. AmateurRambler

    AmateurRambler Member

    Messages:
    54
    Joined:
    16 Sep 2013
    Northern's boast seems a little disingenuous. I dont believe it is not true to say that 50% of the fleet that will remain after 2020 have:
    • received the new livery, and
    • received PRM modifications, and
    • had the full internal 'refurbishment' (including recovered seats with the new moquette, new flooring, at-seat power, etc).
    It might well be true that 50% of the fleet have had at least one of the above treatments.

    Also, whatever percentage completed to date has taken the company 34 months to reach. There are only 9.5 months (42 weeks!) remaining to complete the rest of the fleet.
     
  7. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

    Messages:
    2,653
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2013
    Location:
    Baildon, West Yorkshire
    I'm sure there are people at Northern who share the same frustrations. But there are a number of factors that will have played a part in this, the major ones being regularly discussed on this forum.

    Firstly there is the age of the fleet. With the best will in the world, refurbishing a fleet that is on average well into its twighlight years of service must come with its own problems. We know the 155s were to say the least challenging, with some in quite a poor state of repair, perhaps not surprising when they have been intensively used in a fleet with very little slack. So it is equally possible that similar problems have been encountered with other types of unit.

    Then of course there is workshop capacity, which is finite. With delays to early jobs due to worse than expected unit conditions, and many TOCs requiring their services (with similar potential for delays) it should not be a surprise by now that the Northern work is probably behind schedule.

    Such is the nature of this kind of work, and unfortunately it is very likely that all of it will not be done by the end of the year. And I suspect that this won't be the only end of year target missed. This forum is going to get interesting next January!
     
  8. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

    Messages:
    227
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    Hi there, how many trains are Northern actually refurbishing? (in total) Because Northern are promising to refurbish 243 trains but I can only count 241 i'm not counting the 769s as they're technically 'new' units (even though they are 319 conversions) and i'm not counting the units going off lease this year (142s and 144s, 153s, 321s, 322s and 323s) and the 180s and 185s as they are not really northern units.
    75 Class 150s
    7 Class 155s
    47 Class 156s
    53 Class 158s (45 units with 2 cars, 8 units with 3 cars)
    16 Class 170s
    27 Class 319s
    & 16 Class 333s
    If you get a calculator and add the numbers up you get 241
    Can anyone tell me where I've gone wrong here and where the other 2 trains actually came from?
     
  9. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Malta
    the northern 323s are going for PRM mods at the end of the month has they will be staying with northern with the 323s from WMT batch to join when there lease is up with them, it's been a strong rumour for a long time.
     
  10. 507021

    507021 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2015
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Three of the 319s (372/373, 446) aren't staying permanently, so that's 238 units.

    If 150001/002 and 150202/207/216 join Northern from GWR, then that's 243 units.
     
  11. 507021

    507021 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2015
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Has this been confirmed?
     
  12. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

    Messages:
    227
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    That's funny as I think I read a Tweet by Northen saying that the whole fleet will be completed by the end of 2020 so either
    A) Northern will have to do PRM mods on all the units beforehand and put them in for new liveries and internal refurbs at a later date if they are planning to refurbish all units by the end of 2020
    or
    B) when the new trains arrive Northern can send more trains off for full refurbishments then they can hit their targets alot quicker
     
  13. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Malta
    Been commenting on posts on facebook for most of the day and the drivers have been briefed that the 323s will be staying since they are quicker then the 319s and the 319s that will stay will become FLEX units.
     
  14. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

    Messages:
    227
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    Thanks alot, i'm guessing these units haven't been delivered to Northern yet. If so, then that must be why under-counting by 2 units
     
  15. 507021

    507021 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2015
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ah right, thanks.
     
  16. 507021

    507021 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2015
    Location:
    Liverpool
    No problem.

    They haven't joined the fleet yet, and I'm not sure when they're due to arrive unfortunately.
     
  17. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

    Messages:
    227
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    Thats alright, at least I know that there will be 243 units that will be refurbished.
    Also, when are you updating your fleet list as there have been units that have come out of refurbishment and returned to service and other units have gone in for refurbishment
     
  18. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Malta
    we'll probably know when one of the northern 323s goes for PRM mods and see which colours it will come back in.
     
  19. Wtloild

    Wtloild Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    8 Aug 2018
    Was really impressed with the Virgin-style toilets on this refurbished Northern 150, until I realised:
    - The tap doesn't work
    - The toilet doesn't flush

    Baby step Northern, baby steps.
     
  20. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

    Messages:
    9,657
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2012
    Location:
    Another planet...
    Hmmmm. It seems the laissez-faire attitude to maintenance that has developed (perhaps out of necessity) within Northern and its predecessors will no longer get by. Modern toilets and modern units need regular refilling with water, along with tanks being emptied.

    This in itself isn't a bad thing, but the issues now appearing (stinky toilets, no water)is the downside of the last 30 years of under-investment.
     
  21. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Malta
  22. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    Virgin-style...? So they say hey to you and tell you about their life as a toilet...? Or just conversion-spec PRM toilet modules...? Tap not working would probably mean that the water has run out, due to it "not needing to be topped up due to the water flush having been replaced by the vacuum flush" but forgetting that the tap still needs water, and the toilet not flushing would probably mean that the retention tank hasn't been emptied due to sufficient emptying facilities possibly yet to be installed...
     
  23. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,198
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    What stinky toilets are you referring to...? The original water flush track dumpers or the PRM retrofitted vacuum flush controlled emission ones...?
     
  24. superkev

    superkev Established Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2015
    Location:
    west yorkshire
  25. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Malta
  26. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

    Messages:
    9,657
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2012
    Location:
    Another planet...
    The latter. These units now need emptying regularly- something which Northern didn't have to factor into the vast majority of their diagrams previously. I imagine they aren't over-burdened with emptying points around their network.
     
  27. CHAPS2034

    CHAPS2034 Member

    Messages:
    149
    Joined:
    13 Mar 2018
    Makes sense as one of the WMT 323s (217 I think) has just been refurbed with a PRM bog and I believe there is a programme to do the others. Seems daft if they only have a short period left with WMT and then go into storage.
     
  28. 507021

    507021 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2015
    Location:
    Liverpool
  29. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,915
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Malta
    150108 was the Doncaster run.
     
  30. superkev

    superkev Established Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2015
    Location:
    west yorkshire
    Do Doncaster do the full monty or just the prm mods.
    K
     

Share This Page