Northern Unit Refurbishments

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by darloscott, 3 Apr 2016.

  1. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Last I heard, it was reported that Northern had shelved the idea.
     
  2. AlistairCowell

    AlistairCowell Member

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    What about unit 150209? This unit was made up with 57209 and 57212 (52209 being scrapped after being in an accident in the late 1980s) and does not have a WC.
     
  3. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

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    Does that mean 150209 is going to have a toilet fitted or is it still being put into 2 150/1s?
     
  4. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    The 153s would still need PRM mods though. You cannot keep them in service "as is".
     
  5. AlistairCowell

    AlistairCowell Member

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    Only 113 days until the 31/12/2019 PRM Deadline.
     
  6. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Lock the toilets out of use, that solves 1 problem
     
  7. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

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    should any 153s get PRM mods I think they should just have a PIS installed and just be semi-permanently coupled to other Northern units, anyway it's highly unlikely that they'll get PRM modded anyway and I think they'll just leave Northern or be converted into bike trailers
     
  8. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Indeed. Obviously the largest element of PRM work would be installing an accessible toilet, which for 20 single carriage units would be economically unviable (hence the suggestion of pairing them with 15x units that ARE equipped with accessible toilets). Smaller work such as door sounders and PIS systems could probably be done over a week, based on learned experience with the 155s, but this is fairly academic as we've no idea what the current plan is with the 153s.
     
  9. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    And creates another.

    If they want to retain them then always using them with other PRM modified 15x units is an option: don't modify the toilet, but do the other PRM elements (door sounders, PIS, grab rails etc)
     
  10. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

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    That's my Idea too
     
  11. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    As was mentioned much earlier on this thread the 153s are riddled with rust. I heard that Scotrail are having second thoughts re converting some to bike racks because of this.
    Whether northern have enough units after the PRM work is complete and all the Pacers and 153 are gone I know not.
    K
     
  12. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    What does grab rails have anything to so with PRM i know their is meant to be a grab rail placed next the the door of a train which northern 153s already have but apart from that?
     
  13. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    They have to be of a contrasting colour and at specified height.

    PRM is not just about wheelchair access, it is about improving accessibility for everyone with reduced mobility - you don't have to be in a wheelchair to have that.
     
  14. Neptune

    Neptune Member

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    They need to be a contrasting colour as partially sighted people are also covered under PRM.
     
  15. Andyh82

    Andyh82 Established Member

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    Can they not just run 153s always coupled to something else.

    How many routes do they routinely run single 153s on their own anyway, I bet more than half are used for strengthening with another unit, rather than on their own.
     
  16. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    Can only think of the Cleethorpes - Barton branch where a solo 153 is diagrammed, but they do turn up on other routes occasionally on their own. It would be great if they could run post January 1st if coupled to a PRM'd unit as they would be ideal do for adding / maintaining capacity on routes such as Rochdale - Blackburn / Clitheroe, Leeds - Sheffield and services around South Yorkshire
     
  17. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Huddersfield to Castleford is mostly solo 153s, and as that service uses platform 5 at Huddersfield it needs something that will fit: so 153s or 2-car Pacers it is. A 2-car 150 will just about fit but it's a tight squeeze so use of such isn't encouraged.
     
  18. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    Northern 153s are usually coupled to a 150 on the Rochdale - Man Vic - Blackburn/Cleethorpes service. On occasions it's the hybrid 150209 with no toilet but not noticed it for a while. Definitely seen a 150 on Huddersfield - Castleford.
     
  19. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    150s definitely crop up on Castlefords, but as they're around 40m long and HUD P5 is listed as 39m (IIRC) in the sectional appendix, such use is discouraged. Once the Pacers and 153s go, 150s will be the only option unless the TPE stoppers either side of Huddersfield are reunited (which would free up a longer platform).
     
  20. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    Can they move back the buffer stop by 1m?!
     
  21. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    They probably could, though with 150s the passenger doors are inset sufficiently that this shouldn't be needed. Whilst the usable platform surface is 39m, the signal overlap is larger.

    Doing anything to Huddersfield outside of the scope of the proposed upgrade will be avoided if possible, as both bays on the island will be filled in under those plans. Chances are the stoppers will run through again, so P5 will fall out of regular use again with the Castleford service using 4a or 6 instead.
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2019
  22. anti-pacer

    anti-pacer Established Member

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    Does anyone know when the ex-Scotrail 158's will be completed?

    I'm on one coming back from a very quick trip to Carlisle. I'm sat in what would have been First Class and it's awful.
     
  23. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

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    3 of the former scotrail 158s to be done 786/789 and 870.
    If you look at @507021's rail blog it will tell you under the unofficial northern fleetlist banner;

    https://merseyrailpep507.blogspot.com/p/unofficial-northern-fleet-list.html
     
  24. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    If the 170s are anything to go by, where those without first class went for refurbishment first, then it would seem plausible that those 158s with first class sections will be that last to be tackled...

    However the 158s are all eventually getting new seats fitted and the 170s aren't (the 2+1 former first compartments seem to be staying as 2+1), so such guesswork is just that.
     
  25. SteveyBee131

    SteveyBee131 Member

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    It would, but as has been said several times on this and other threads, to operate longer than a short term dispensation, they would need to have all the necessary PRM mods, as all carriages need to be so treated, and it's sadly not just a case of putting a big toilet in or locking a standard one, they would need the full works.
     
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The "full works" (PIS and tweaking with the seat layout, basically) is a lot cheaper than doing anything with the bogs, though. No reason a unit cannot have no toilet.
     
  27. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Northern have been very quiet about this new long-distance service to the east coast...;)
     
  28. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    According to ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages Post #1850, the TfW 153s are receiving PRM mods, with 153323 and 153325 being the first to go in. Does anyone know the scope of these works?
     
  29. Paul_10

    Paul_10 Member

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    Ive no doubt that the deadline will be passed with units still to be completed, no doubt there be some sort of exemption that a unmodded unit must be coupled to a complient unit with corridor sections hence the urgency in which the 150/1 are getting done at.

    If there is an exemption on pacer units being used next year then I no doubt there will be an exemption on the non PRM units
     
  30. OTRail

    OTRail Member

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