Northern Unit Refurbishments

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by darloscott, 3 Apr 2016.

  1. Phlip

    Phlip Member

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    Surely “refurbishment” of mechanical components is called an overhaul, not a refurbishment. A refurbishment is about updating the interior - literally the furnishings, as the word would suggest
     
  2. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    That's an interesting point. I dont seem to hear the term "overhaul" much these days with "refurbishment" seemingly encompassing anything from a quick touch up to a full overhaul.
    Personal view is that looking after the mechanical bits and not running them into the ground may not have the passenger wow factor of a repaint but they will definitely notice when their train fails or doesn't turn up.
    I'd be interesting to know what the clerks at the dft who specified the Northern franchise meant with something like "return the trains to as new condition". I.e with working air con and not issuing clouds of black smoke like the shiney 158 I saw the other day.
    K
     
  3. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    That ties in with my list although I dont include units in works as PRMed.
    Did 150 277 eventually make it back from Kilmarnock. Last week it was marooned at Dumfries.
    Incidentally 507021s excellent fleetlist has just been updated (thanks 507021). See
    https://merseyrailpep507.blogspot.com/
    K
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2019
  4. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

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    The only way a PRM mod would work with 153s is if Northern just put PIS systems in and then semi permanently connect them up to a fully PRM modded unit. Either that or turn them back into 155s
     
    Last edited: 7 Oct 2019
  5. mde

    mde Member

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    How do you figure?

    As @anamyd's video shows here (and linked in the post you replied to), TfW have installed a new accessible toilet and done PRM mods on 153325. There is probably elements which will either need or are already covered by dispensation; but, it's difficult to argue that installing a new PIS and bolting onto another unit is the only way to do this.

    It could very well be the cheapest way to do it; but, is there enough available units to allow for that, without causing difficulty elsewhere?
     
  6. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    As it took Brodies around 14 months to PRM the first 155 including repairing or replacing acres of rust i dont think PRM mods for Northeren 153s is going to happen.
    K
    Kev
     
  7. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    It's also supposedly giving ScotRail cold feet on their 153 baggage car plan. I don't see Northern keeping the 155's once the extra 156's & 158's become available from EMR.
     
  8. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    Haven't all 7 of the non-153-converted 155s (or at least 6 of them) been fully refurbished...?
     
  9. Neptune

    Neptune Member

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    All fully refurbished although 155346 has the original blue moquette, light blue grab handles and white end walls. Plus the end lights haven’t been replaced with the new brighter WIPAC’s either.

    Hopefully though they will be replaced by 7 off lease 156’s in the future as 155’s are awful units.
     
  10. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    They have. They also form part of the fleet plan for the remainder of the franchise, so unless something significant happens with either the franchise or the units themselves, replacing them will be a job for the next Northern franchise.

    The only reason TfW are PRM-ing 153s is because without doing so they'll have a big shortfall in usable units in January. Northern only have a small number of routes where a single 153 is sufficient, and even fewer if that 153 has a large toilet.
     
  11. Neptune

    Neptune Member

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    A pair of 153’s with PRM mods will actually have more seats and standing room than a 2 car 144 so not a huge problem on lightly used routes. However Northern are binning them as it stands whereas TfW Rail are retaining them for the foreseeable.

    They are also a very useful unit for strengthening services to 3 cars where 2 isn’t sufficient and 4 is overkill.
     
  12. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    With a bit of luck a grand total of 2 153s round my way will be PRM'd by January :p
     
  13. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    In what way awful...?
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It's worth a look at the Welsh rolling stock thread, though - it appears TfW have fully PRMed, bog included, a Class 153.
     
  15. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    Northern 155s probably the worse dmus ever constructed. Seating designed for a dwarf ( 80 in 23m as built), noisy engines, high sills slow doors and riddled with rust. I was amazed when Northern spent time an money on them.
    I'm 5 11" and often found it better to stand.
    Personally I used to prefer a 144.
    K
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't mind them that much, they're not much different to a 156. They just need some seats removing and the rest spacing out. Oh, and the removal of the high-brightness floodlight Northern have seen fit to install on the bulkhead to shine in your face.

    A key advantage is that the "lots of small windows" approach means you can put the seating in any layout without there being issues with no view.
     
  17. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    Considering how much money has been spent on them, I'd be very surprised if the 155s leave before the end of the franchise.
     
  18. Harvey B

    Harvey B Member

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    I wasn't basing it on how cheap it is but more how pointless it is to reduce seating capacity in a one car unit and plus they're also likely to work in multiple with other PRM modded trains anyway so there would be no need for a PRM toilet
     
  19. davart

    davart Member

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    Whilst the PRM specification is a good thing, it's clear that it's taking more time to withdraw old stock/modify it to meet legislation.

    A common sense approach would simply be to allow existing stock to run as is until life expired, which in fact may not be far off for some units.

    The key with refurbishment is to ensure that a quality job is done so that it lasts. It should also be a clear improvement on the previous design.

    I do question slapping white paint over everything. It's a little stark when new but will quickly become grubby. Priority should be making units easy to clean and maintain. Seats ideally ought to be easy to swap-out when soiled. Panels should be modular and again removable for cleaning or a new coat of paint if needed.

    Standardising fittings across all DMUs would make a lot of sense in terms of maintenance and cleaning.
     
  20. Whattraintoday

    Whattraintoday Member

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    They've had 20 years.
    The cold dead hand of the DfT is all over this.
     
  21. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    The toilets FNW fitted to their 150's and 156's were compliant when they were fitted in the early 2000's but aren't compliant now.
     
  22. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

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    Last edited: 8 Oct 2019
  23. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

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  24. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    Anyone know the number returning to NH. Prob 150 106 which has been at Donc since 17 sept or perhaps 150 129 which I have as in works somewhere.
    You would think Northern would concentrate prm on the 150/1s as these cant gangway to prm fitted gangwayed units
    K
     
  25. jonesy3001

    jonesy3001 Established Member

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    Probably fitting the 150/2s in when they can and depends which service they have before they go for refurb. Sure there'll be an exodus when more 195s/331s enter service for PRM mods.
     
  26. M1544

    M1544 Member

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  27. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    Doubt it will be 106, they seem to be taking around 6-8 weeks to do so hasn't been gone long enough
     
  28. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    5th attempt was it. Tis a miracle.
    K
     
  29. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    There only fitting the bathrooms and PRM work at Doncaster so may be quicker.
    K
     
  30. Karl

    Karl Member

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    :) I'd love a bath on a train! Especially a 142!!
     

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