superkev
Established Member
I have 150 147 as going to Wolverton on 20th June.Don't forget 150147 is at Wolverton.
K
I have 150 147 as going to Wolverton on 20th June.Don't forget 150147 is at Wolverton.
In my view there is no shortage northern are losing 102 dmu units replaced by 58+49 dmus new and cascaded stock which equals 117 units plus 8 769s. Alot of people have forgotten this over the years or not have known. Also 43 class 331s with electrification releasing dmu is extra. Northern has gained not lostNot really part of this Northern refurb thread but are there likely to be any spare dmus available in the short or medium term to overcome Northern seemingly constant shortage of units. This can only get worse if the remaining Pacers and 153s leave.
K
Yes that's true before the enhanced timetable and Graying reduced the electrification. According to this months Modern railways they have told the government that more dmus will be needed if the enhanced timetable is reintroduced.In my view there is no shortage northern are losing 102 dmu units replaced by 58+49 dmus new and cascaded stock which equals 117 units plus 8 769s. Alot of people have forgotten this over the years or not have known. Also 43 class 331s with electrification releasing dmu is extra. Northern has gained not lost
Well they [the government] can't just do nothing. They either need to order diesel trains or put up wires for electric trains. Time will tell.Yes that's true before the enhanced timetable and Graying reduced the electrification. According to this months Modern railways they have told the government that more dmus will be needed if the enhanced timetable is reintroduced.
K
Yes that's true before the enhanced timetable and Graying reduced the electrification. According to this months Modern railways they have told the government that more dmus will be needed if the enhanced timetable is reintroduced.
K
In the short term they can lap up the various 153s that will shortly be coming off-lease from other places (EMR, WMT, some of the TfW ones) and use those to help cover the unit shortfall. In the medium to long term they really should be considering more electric options than diesels, or stupid gimmicks like battery or hydrogen trains.Well they [the government] can't just do nothing. They either need to order diesel trains or put up wires for electric trains. Time will tell.
Agreed. What have they done with all these extra units? This is how the fleet has changed in terms of car numbers, from what I can make out.In my view there is no shortage northern are losing 102 dmu units replaced by 58+49 dmus new and cascaded stock which equals 117 units plus 8 769s. Alot of people have forgotten this over the years or not have known. Also 43 class 331s with electrification releasing dmu is extra. Northern has gained not lost
Start | Now | Final | Start to Now Change | Start to Final Change | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
142 | 158 | 0 | 0 | -158 | -158 |
144 | 56 | 0 | 0 | -56 | -56 |
150 | 116 | 162 | 162 | +46 | +46 |
153 | 18 | 18 | 0 | 0 | -18 |
156 | 84 | 94 | 94 | +10 | +10 |
158 | 98 | 114 | 114 | +16 | +16 |
170 | 0 | 48 | 48 | +48 | +48 |
185 | 15 | 0 | 0 | -15 | -15 |
195 | 0 | 140 | 149 | +140 | +149 |
769 | 0 | 0 | 32 | 0 | +32 |
LHCS | 8 | 0 | 0 | -8 | -8 |
Total Diesel | 567 | 584 | 607 | +23 | +46 |
319 | 80 | 60 | 0 | -20 | -80 |
321 | 12 | 0 | 0 | -12 | -12 |
322 | 20 | 0 | 0 | -20 | -20 |
323 | 51 | 51 | 102 | 0 | +51 |
331 | 0 | 138 | 141 | +138 | +141 |
333 | 64 | 64 | 64 | 0 | 0 |
Total EMU | 227 | 313 | 307 | +86 | +80 |
Total Fleet | 794 | 897 | 914 | +109 | +126 |
Since when were Northern getting rid of 153s?153 18 18 00 -18
It was planned from the start of the (Arriva) franchise for them to go. As none have had PRM mods, it's a reasonable assumption to say that still stands.Since when were Northern getting rid of 153s?
Yes, that's correct.Is the +51 323s the 17 that are transferring over to northern from WMT?
Well they have a dispensation till the end of this yearIt was planned from the start of the (Arriva) franchise for them to go. As none have had PRM mods, it's a reasonable assumption to say that still stands.
Could get the other 9 if they don't find an home for them.Yes, that's correct.
Due to the 319s forever breaking down they decided to keep the 323s, PRM and refresh them into the new colours and get the rest from WMT and get rid of the 319 and the 323s are popular with the drivers and a couple of minutes slower then the 331s.Well they have a dispensation till the end of this year
I was talking about the 153s, not the 323s also originally Porterbrook didn't want to lease the 323s to Northern and expected WMT (or LM at the time) to take them on however WMT decided to get new Aventras instead to replace the 323s so Porterbrook decided to that the 323s could go to Northern, slightly offtopic but doesn't need its own thread.Due to the 319s forever breaking down they decided to keep the 323s, PRM and refresh them into the new colours and get the rest from WMT and get rid of the 319 and the 323s are popular with the drivers and a couple of minutes slower then the 331s.
But if they were keeping them long term they would be going through for PRM and refurb by now, would they not?Well they have a dispensation till the end of this year
This was pre government ownership, I think they may stay for now as capacity boosters for the rest of the sprinters, it isn't going to be popular for the government to decide to get rid of them especially as they had to temporarily bring back a few pacers recently, anyway getting a little offtopic now...But if they were keeping them long term they would be going through for PRM and refurb by now, would they not?
It would be rather embarrassing for the Government to have ask themselves for a further PRM dispensation though.This was pre government ownership, I think they may stay for now as capacity boosters for the rest of the sprinters, it isn't going to be popular for the government to decide to get rid of them especially as they had to temporarily bring back a few pacers recently, anyway getting a little offtopic now...
Just to say did you also include the next batch of 150s ×3 from GWR? that's extra on top of the 49 plus the 150/0 ×2Agreed. What have they done with all these extra units? This is how the fleet has changed in terms of car numbers, from what I can make out.
Start Now Final Start to Now Change Start to Final Change 142 158 0 0 -158 -158 144 56 0 0 -56 -56 150 116 156 156 +40 +40 153 18 18 0 0 -18 156 84 94 94 +10 +10 158 98 114 114 +16 +16 170 0 48 48 +48 +48 185 15 0 0 -15 -15 195 0 140 149 +140 +149 769 0 0 32 0 +32 LHCS 8 0 0 -8 -8 Total Diesel 567 584 607 +17 +40 319 80 60 0 -20 -80 321 12 0 0 -12 -12 322 20 0 0 -20 -20 323 51 51 102 0 +51 331 0 138 141 +138 +141 333 64 64 64 0 0 Total EMU 227 313 307 +86 +80 Total Fleet 794 897 914 +103 +120
No good having electric units if there's no wires for them to use. Plenty of places where a new DMU could work until it falls apart and still not be displaced by electrics.In the short term they can lap up the various 153s that will shortly be coming off-lease from other places (EMR, WMT, some of the TfW ones) and use those to help cover the unit shortfall. In the medium to long term they really should be considering more electric options than diesels, or stupid gimmicks like battery or hydrogen trains.
If I remember there were an agreement that an extra 18 dmus were moving to the region under the arriva franchise if that's still going ahead?Yes that's true before the enhanced timetable and Graying reduced the electrification. According to this months Modern railways they have told the government that more dmus will be needed if the enhanced timetable is reintroduced.
K
No - excluded the 3 x 150s as they are not now coming. Actually - you've made me look again. I missed out the 150/0s. Will amend...Just to say did you also include the next batch of 150s ×3 from GWR? that's extra on top of the 49 plus the 150/0 ×2
Also I assume to an answer to your first question that maybe 10-20 units are away for mods/refurb etc etc. But still does not fully account for what they have done with these extra units.
Wonder if 147 is picking up another unit from Crewe them going to newton heath150147 on the below this morning. Unsure of the headcode
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0808 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Newton Heath T.M.D.
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
All todays other move seem centred on Newton heath.I have 150 147 as going to Wolverton on 20th June.
K
I have 150150 as not refurbished so prob cet tank fitmen as its only been there 2 weeks.150150 coming back from Crewe to Newton Heath under ROG 5B31