Northern Unit Refurbishments

[3973EXL]

Something definatly went there sat.

Realtime Trains - 506O 1302 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 512O 1551 Heaton T&R.S.M.D. to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

K

158851 on the Heaton to Crewe

158758 back at Holbeck for digital mods so USB and WiFi

 

[Adam0984]

Details are sometimes a little sketchy on a weekend

 

[158757]

3973XL said it was an unbranded 150/1, so that puts it as one of 150121/127/129/131.

 

[3973EXL]

3973XL said it was an unbranded 150/1, so that puts it as one of 150121/127/129/131.

150121 & 150129 out working today on RTT, so possible 127 or 131.

 

[158757]

Updated lists 25/10/20, corrections welcome. Any further updates on moquette changes appreciated. 150112 and 150223 are the latest changes to moquette and all 155s are now changed, I also spied 150205 which still has purple seat covers so changed that back for now.

Liveries

Northern livery with logos
Unbranded Northern livery
Old Serco-Abellio Northern purple

# – Digital Train Modifications complete (USB, CCTV, additional PIS screens)
# - Northern Connect Mods (Seat reservations)
Prototype refurbishment – light blue seat backs, Arriva turquoise grab poles, cream coloured end walls

150001 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150002 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

# 150101 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
150102 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150103 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150104 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150105 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150106 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150107 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150108 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150109 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150110 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150111 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150112 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150113 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150114 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150115 - Unrefurbished, old purple moquette Ashbourne seats
150116 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
150117 - Unrefurbished, old purple moquette Ashbourne seats
150118 - Unrefurbished, old purple moquette Ashbourne seats
150119 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150120 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150121 - Unrefurbished, First Great Western moquette Ashbourne seats
150122 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats (in works, Crewe)
150123 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150124 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150125 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
150126 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150127 - Unrefurbished, First Great Western moquette Ashbourne seats
150128 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150129 - Unrefurbished, First Great Western moquette Ashbourne seats
150130 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150131 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats (in works, Crewe)
150132 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150133 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150134 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150135 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150136 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Chapman seats
150137 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Chapman seats
150138 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150139 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150140 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Chapman seats
150141 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150142 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
150143 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
150144 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150145 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150146 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
150147 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150148 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150149 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Chapman seats
150150 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

150120, 123, 128, 130 retain Silverlink NSE blue wall carpet
150136 has several rows of seats in airline layout

150201 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150203 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150204 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
150205 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Chapman seats
150206 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Ashbourne seats
150209 - Unrefurbished, First Great Western moquette Ashbourne seats (no toilet)
150210 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150211 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150214 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150215 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150218 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 150220 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150222 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
150223 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150224 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150225 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150226 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150228 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150268 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150269 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150270 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
# 150271 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150272 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
# 150273 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150274 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Ashbourne seats
# 150275 – Refurbished (prototype style), new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150276 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150277 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150205 has a row of seats that were incorrectly fitted in a bay layout on refurb

155341 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155342 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155343 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155344 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155345 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155346 - Refurbished (prototype style), new blue moquette Chapman seats
155347 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

# 156420 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 156421 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156423 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156424 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156425 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156426 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156427 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156428 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156429 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156438 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156440 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156441 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156443 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156444 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156447 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats (in works, Eastleigh)
156448 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Richmond seats
156449 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 156451 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156452 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
156454 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156455 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156459 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156460 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156461 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156463 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156464 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156465 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 156466 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156468 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156469 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156471 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156472 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156475 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Richmond seats
156479 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156480 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats (RAF 100 vinyls)
156481 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Richmond seats
156482 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156483 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156484 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156485 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats (in works, Eastleigh)
156486 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156487 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156488 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156489 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats (in works, Holbeck)
156490 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats (in works, Holbeck)
156491 - Refurbished, old purple moquette Richmond seats
156496 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

Refurbished 156 units with Richmond seats but old purple moquette seats (and 156468) retain floor carpet, this is replaced during work at Holbeck

158752 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
158753 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
158754 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
158755 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
158756 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
158757 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158758 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats (in works, Holbeck)
158759 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats

158782 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158784 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158786 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158787 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158789 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158790 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158791 - Unrefurbished, old purple moquette MTB seats
158792 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158793 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158794 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158795 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158796 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158797 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158815 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158816 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158817 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158842 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158843 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158844 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
## 158845 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158848 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
## 158849 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158850 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158851 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats (in works, Crewe)
158853 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158855 - Unrefurbished, old purple moquette MTB seats
158859 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158860 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats (Thank you NHS vinyls)
158861 - Unrefurbished, old purple moquette MTB seats
158867 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158868 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158869 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158870 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158871 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158872 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats (in works, Bristol Barton Hill)

158901 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158902 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158903 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158904 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158905 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158906 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158907 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158908 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158909 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158910 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158752 and 158756 have cream coloured end walls instead of navy blue

158752-759, 782, 786, 789, 867-871 retain the parcels cupboard in the 57 end vehicle

# 170453 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170454 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170455 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170456 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170457 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170458 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170459 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170460 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170461 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170472 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170473 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170474 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170475 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170476 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170477 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats
# 170478 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Chapman seats

170453-458 retain an old first class section (declassified) at each end of the train

Key

Liveries

Northern livery with logos
Unbranded Thameslink White/Blue

319361 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319366 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319367 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319368 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319369 – refurbished, dark purple “Northern Electrics” moquette seats
319370 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319372 – unrefurbished, FCC moquette seats and interior
319375 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319378 – refurbished, dark purple “Northern Electrics” moquette seats
319379 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319381 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319383 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319384 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319385 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319386 – refurbished, dark purple “Northern Electrics” moquette seats

769424 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
769431 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
769434 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
769442 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769448 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769450 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
769456 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
769458 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

319367 has additional PIS screens fitted although never used
All Northern 769s retain a declassified first class section

323223 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats (in works, Wolverton)
323224 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats (in works, Wolverton)
323225 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323226 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323227 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323228 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323229 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323230 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323231 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323232 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323233 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323234 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323235 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323236 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323237 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323238 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323239 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

333001 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333002 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333003 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333004 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333005 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333006 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333007 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333008 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333009 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333010 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333011 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333012 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333013 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333014 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333015 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333016 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

 

[Liverpool 507]

Having noticed on Facebook from the latest Crewe refurbs, 150114 doesn’t feature the ‘northern’ lettering, although 158853 does.

 

[158757]

The only as yet unrefurbished 150/1 not out today according to allocations is 150131, so tied in the with fact this is also unbranded, I think this is the one that went to Crewe on Saturday.

150123 now has moquette seat covers.

 

[BurtonM]

I've just realised what the prototype refurb is, I thought it was an ATW unit!
I wish they'd all been done like that, it's nice. Miles and miles better than reality.

 

[221101 Voyager]

319367 has additional PIS screens fitted although never used

Just wondering, does anyone have any images of these extra screens? It's becuase I'm intrigued to see what they are.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Just wondering, does anyone have any images of these extra screens? It's becuase I'm intrigued to see what they are.

I do somewhere as I used to clean this unit, one is very badly scratched and cracked. As 158757 said, they have never been used before.

 

[221101 Voyager]

I do somewhere as I used to clean this unit, one is very badly scratched and cracked. As 158757 said, they have never been used before.

If you find them, I'd love to see them! Good luck to you.

 

[158757]

Just wondering, does anyone have any images of these extra screens? It's becuase I'm intrigued to see what they are.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Nice shots of a unique feature.

Ah I see, similar to the all the LNWR 350s (except /2s) which have a landscape real time info display.

I wonder why the 319 ones were never used or fitted on other units?

 

[py_megapixel]

Nice shots of a unique feature.

Ah I see, similar to the all the LNWR 350s (except /2s) which have a landscape real time info display.

FWIW they're also on some 150s now. In this case they are actually working and currently just show advertising.

 

[jonesy3001]

Nice shots of a unique feature.

Ah I see, similar to the all the LNWR 350s (except /2s) which have a landscape real time info display.

I wonder why the 319 ones were never used or fitted on other units?

Probably started doing them, then when the announcement about the 323s staying at northern and the 319s leaving they might have stopped fitting them.

 

[221101 Voyager]

FWIW they're also on some 150s now. In this case they are actually working and currently just show advertising.

I don't get why so much money is being spent on 30 year old trains. Advertising screens on a 150 really? Is it necessary? The same goes for USBs and other bits that aren't a life or death reqirement. It just seems a waste of money to me.

I think money is best spent on trains that are clean, comfy and that have air con. Thats more important than USBs and advert screens right?

Probably started doing them, then when the announcement about the 323s staying at northern and the 319s leaving they might have stopped fitting them.

Seems likely.

 

[Energy]

I don't get why so much money is being spent on 30 year old trains. Advertising screens on a 150 really? Is it necessary? The same goes for USBs and other bits that aren't a life or death reqirement. It just seems a waste of money to me.

The screens will just get removed and put on another train, that is what is happening to the ones fitted to LNER HSTs. WiFi will also just get removed and used on another train, USBs are fairly cheap.

 

[221101 Voyager]

The screens will just get removed and put on another train, that is what is happening to the ones fitted to LNER HSTs. WiFi will also just get removed and used on another train, USBs are fairly cheap.

What I'm saying is that those USBs and other fancy bits need to be purchased and then you have to pay a driver to drive it to where it's getting them fitted, then the refurb company also wants paying to fit them. So it soon adds up, especially across hundereds of coaches.

 

[Energy]

What I'm saying is that those USBs and other fancy bits need to be purchased and then you have to pay a driver to drive it to where it's getting them fitted, then the refurb company also wants paying to fit them. So it soon adds up, especially across hundereds of coaches.

Yeah it seems pointless to me, there currently aren't plans for their replacement, even if there should be...

 

[DB]

The screens will just get removed and put on another train, that is what is happening to the ones fitted to LNER HSTs. WiFi will also just get removed and used on another train, USBs are fairly cheap.

While the USB sockets themselves will be cheap, the hassle of running all the wiring along behind the panels won't be. Nor will the regular fitter attention required when USB sockets get broken.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Yeah it seems pointless to me, there currently aren't plans for their replacement, even if there should be...

There should really be at least plans for replacements especially for 150-156's. May I suggest Flirts, I've used them they are very good.

Anyway, thats for another thread...

While the USB sockets themselves will be cheap, the hassle of running all the wiring along behind the panels won't be. Nor will the regular fitter attention required when USB sockets get broken.

Exactly, it is a lot of work just so people can be stuck to their phone for a little longer.

 

[Ben Anslow]

Having noticed on Facebook from the latest Crewe refurbs, 150114 doesn’t feature the ‘northern’ lettering, although 158853 does.

they changed the font in the northern part of the logo must not have received new vinyls

 

[AMD]

USBs and the like isn't cheap, however it's now become a standard requirement for your average passenger - in the same way that back in the 1830s third class didn't need any form of cushions on the wooden seats, however a seat with some sort of cushioned base and back has been standard for every passenger for a while now.....
Oh, and the Northern sprinter fleet is expected to last much of the 2020s so the 'payback' time on the investment is there.

 

[DB]

USBs and the like isn't cheap, however it's now become a standard requirement for your average passenger - in the same way that back in the 1830s third class didn't need any form of cushions on the wooden seats, however a seat with some sort of cushioned base and back has been standard for every passenger for a while now.....
Oh, and the Northern sprinter fleet is expected to last much of the 2020s so the 'payback' time on the investment is there.

Has it, or is it a manufactured "need"?

Put it another way, how many people would be deterred from travelling if it wasn't there? Yes, I might use sockets if they are there but I certainly don't regard them as essential. USB ones even less than 3-pin, as phones have logner battery life than laptops, and can easily be charged using a battery pack.

Seats with cushioned base and back? You've not been on an IEP then?

 

[HarryL]

I think plug sockets are a better option to fit than USBs are and are much more future-proof. USB sockets will get outdated pretty quickly moving forward at this stage, any future iPhone user now gets a cable with USB-C on the end, as do a lot of Android users, so the USB-A sockets fitted are no longer meeting those customers requirements. It's the classic transport companies lagging behind technology and only just reaching a stage that should have been reached years ago.

 

[DB]

I think plug sockets are a better option to fit than USBs are and are much more future-proof. USB sockets will get outdated pretty quickly moving forward at this stage, any future iPhone user now gets a cable with USB-C on the end, as do a lot of Android users, so the USB-A sockets fitted are no longer meeting those customers requirements. It's the classic transport companies lagging behind technology and only just reaching a stage that should have been reached years ago.

Replacing the socket faces wouldn't be difficult - it's the wiring which will be the time-consuming part and that wouldn't need changing. Nothing is "future proof", but currently USB-A socets are of more use than USB-C as more people have USB-A charging cables. A USB-A to C adapter, or a charging cable with a USB-A plug on the end, can be bought for a few quid. As I said above, I'd sceptical about the need for any of them, but if they are going to be there then USB-A is the best option at the moment although that will no doubt change in due course.

I expect the reason for USB sockets only on older units is that the auxilliary alternator doesn't have sufficient spare capacity to be able to supply 240v 3-pin sockets throughout the train.

 

[AMD]

Has it, or is it a manufactured "need"?

Shall we just go back to wooden seats for standard class then?
As a conductor, I do see a lot of people plugging devices into the sockets provided, to the extent that when i'm working a train that has yet to be fitted it's almost a guarantee that a passenger will ask if there is somewhere to plug in; so anecdotally I would say that it is a 'modern' need.

 

[DB]

Shall we just go back to wooden seats for standard class then?
As a conductor, I do see a lot of people plugging devices into the sockets provided, to the extent that when i'm working a train that has yet to be fitted it's almost a guarantee that a passenger will ask if there is somewhere to plug in; so anecdotally I would say that it is a 'modern' need.

Sure, they will use them if they are there, but essential? No. Early smartphones did tend to go flat quite quicky, but modern ones easily last a day of fairly heavy use.

Bit different with laptops as the batteries don't tend to last as long - but they require 3-pin sockets, not USB ones.

 

[Energy]

I think plug sockets are a better option to fit than USBs are and are much more future-proof. USB sockets will get outdated pretty quickly moving forward at this stage, any future iPhone user now gets a cable with USB-C on the end, as do a lot of Android users, so the USB-A sockets fitted are no longer meeting those customers requirements. It's the classic transport companies lagging behind technology and only just reaching a stage that should have been reached years ago.

USB Cs are easy to retrofit, you just need to change the socket as the wiring is the exact same.

240v mains would be much harder to fit, USB are only 5v and the amps provided by ports on trains and buses are usually only 1 amp with higher than 1 amp being the exception.

I expect the reason for USB sockets only on older units is that the auxilliary alternator doesn't have sufficient spare capacity to be able to supply 240v 3-pin sockets throughout the train

Also have to deal with the devices people plug in, USB ports are very low wattage at 5w (some are more but all devices work with 5w) but laptops are anywhere from 60-90w and some high performance ones can be as much as 180w.

 

[Roast Veg]

I am typing this from a laptop with a 230w charger.