Jamesrob637
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- 12 Aug 2016
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Can't be that bad if Glossop gained a 331 today!
Haven't quite a few of the 331s spent similar amount of time on either side of the Pennines with the 4 cars initially on the west and the 3 cars initially on the east?I dont think any of the east sides 4 car 331s are affected (yet) for some reason.
Perhaps the east side routes being relatively straight are not as taxing on the yaw damper mounts.
K
The longitudinal forces from acceleration and braking will be transmitted between the bogies and the train by other means. The yaw dampers are essentially shock absorbers that dampen down the rapid rotation of the bogie that is one cause of poor riding, while hopefully not much affecting the slower rotations as it goes into and out of curves. I can't see that this sort of force and movement would depend much on train length.Wonder if the length of the train has a bearing on stress between the bogies and frame? The longer the train the greater the area to absorb the forces as the stress passes through the train.
It would be really funny if CAF designed the yaw damper mounting based on the stresses on a 4 car unit and never checked with shorter formations.
Haven't quite a few of the 331s spent similar amount of time on either side of the Pennines with the 4 cars initially on the west and the 3 cars initially on the east?
Might get a bit more overall lateral movement at the ends that aren't coupled to something ( and maybe a bit more hunting as a result ) but that doesn't seem like something that'd cause a disastrously greater amount of stress on the bracket.The longitudinal forces from acceleration and braking will be transmitted between the bogies and the train by other means. The yaw dampers are essentially shock absorbers that dampen down the rapid rotation of the bogie that is one cause of poor riding, while hopefully not much affecting the slower rotations as it goes into and out of curves. I can't see that this sort of force and movement would depend much on train length.
A few 3 cars were initially in the east for training purposes only. None have worked passenger services in the east.Haven't quite a few of the 331s spent similar amount of time on either side of the Pennines with the 4 cars initially on the west and the 3 cars initially on the east?
If so then it would apply mostly to the bogies at each end of the set, which would be proportionately more failures in the shorter sets but the actual failure risk per end bogie is unlikely to be different.Might get a bit more overall lateral movement at the ends that aren't coupled to something ( and maybe a bit more hunting as a result ) but that doesn't seem like something that'd cause a disastrously greater amount of stress on the bracket.
I have no idea how the maintenance is broken down for all these units, are they looked after in different places?
The 158+153 is a booked working.There were certainly a large number of 195 substitutions on the Calder Valley line yesterday. In the space of less than an hour at Hebden Bridge, I noted three trains which would normally be booked for 195s being worked by a 2 car 158+153, a 3 car 158 and a pair of 150s respectively.
1J19, 14 12 LDS-MCV?The 158+153 is a booked working.
Yes, it's been booked 158+153 for a while, certainly since the reduced timetable came in. I've worked it myself a few times (there's also an inwards trip in the AM from Vic - 1J06, it goes onto Neville Hill for a few hours after arrival before coming back out. It's 153324+158868 today).1J19, 14 12 LDS-MCV?
Fair enough....I hadn't realised that. It was 158 868+153 324 yesterday too.Yes, it's been booked 158+153 for a while, certainly since the reduced timetable came in. I've worked it myself a few times (there's also an inwards trip in the AM from Vic - 1J06, it goes onto Neville Hill for a few hours after arrival before coming back out. It's 153324+158868 today).
Was the 3 car 158 on a Wigan service? 158s (or 150s) are the booked traction on those too. The 150x2 is definitely a planned substitution for 195 availability though.Fair enough....I hadn't realised that. It was 158 868+153 324 yesterday too.
Oh dear... let's hope this doesn't unfold into anything more serious. It's been a while since large numbers of a class have had to have been withdrawn for a problem, let alone a whole family of classes. TfW management will maybe be wearing brown trousers at the moment.Little bit of a distraction perhaps, but my insider at WMT is informing me that apparently some of the abellio 196s are having to be grounded for exactly the same fault.
TfW are probably relieved that this has been discovered now rather then in a few years time when the units are in service to be fair.Oh dear... let's hope this doesn't unfold into anything more serious. It's been a while since large numbers of a class have had to have been withdrawn for a problem, let alone a whole family of classes. TfW management will maybe be wearing brown trousers at the moment.
That's true. Plus if there are a significant number that haven't been built yet then rectifying this potential problem would be very easy.TfW are probably relieved that this has been discovered now rather then in a few years time when the units are in service to be fair.
That is assuming it's an easy rectification - if it turns out it's caused by something like part of the frame warping because it wasn't coping with the stresses invovled properly then that could be a literal rebuild. One would hope it's not anything that calamitous & maybe new dampers will solve it.That's true. Plus if there are a significant number that haven't been built yet then rectifying this potential problem would be very easy.
From what has been reported so far, it’s not the damper that is the problem but the way it is attached to the body.That is assuming it's an easy rectification - if it turns out it's caused by something like part of the frame warping because it wasn't coping with the stresses invovled properly then that could be a literal rebuild. One would hope it's not anything that calamitous & maybe new dampers will solve it.
Yes, I don't think it would be in service otherwise. Nice catch!I clocked 331009 (14/04) at Dinting on the Man Picc-Glossop.
From the video still, you can see white marks on the soleplate where various structure is attached. Is this an indicator that examination has been carried out?
Is this that faults have been found, or just that they are stopping some for checks because they're the same design? If it's a fatigue fault it's only likely to develop after a certain amount of service, and Northern introduced theirs first.Little bit of a distraction perhaps, but my insider at WMT is informing me that apparently some of the abellio 196s are having to be grounded for exactly the same fault.
The rate of initiation and propagation will depend on relevant duty cycle so it is always uncertain when comparing across operators/routes until the exact contributory factors are understood.Is this that faults have been found, or just that they are stopping some for checks because they're the same design? If it's a fatigue fault it's only likely to develop after a certain amount of service, and Northern introduced theirs first.
an overly stiff damper could be the *cause* though ( along with a number of other things ).From what has been reported so far, it’s not the damper that is the problem but the way it is attached to the body.
For a damper to be that stiff, if that is the sole contributory factor to the vehicle body material failing, there would have been an affect on bogie steering which would have been evident in unusual wheel and track wear.an overly stiff damper could be the *cause* though ( along with a number of other things ).