Northern's choice of event promotion

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aformeruser

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Today and tomorrow is the annual Cheshire Show. As usual the organisers have arranged for free shuttle buses from Knutsford, Northwich and Hartford stations (2 managed by Northern, 1 by LM.) The Cheshire Show causes a strain on local roads so you'd think Northern would take the opportunity to try and attract extra passengers. However, from their website and social media accounts it seems they have no idea of a big show happening around 3 miles from one of their routes.

However, they are making a big fuss about Sonic Journey in Yorkshire and have prepared trains specially for the event:



Is there any reason Northern would choose to do this? The only reason I can think of based on the pictures is the Hull services are lightly loaded compared to Mid-Cheshire services and operated using superior 158s so they don't think passengers would be put off, unlike they would be on crowded 142s and 150s on the Mid-Cheshire line.
 
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DarloRich

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You are assuming the organisers of the Cheshire Show told Northern about their event...........

(PS any opportunity to complain about Northern eh ;) )
 

gordonthemoron

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considering how busy Mid-Cheshire services are usually, I don't think it would be a good idea for Northern to attract more passengers to the services
 

aformeruser

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You are assuming the organisers of the Cheshire Show told Northern about their event...........

MCRUA send Northern regular notifications of local events. However, the Serco/Abellio administration usually saw events in Cheshire as being insignificant and it seems the Arriva administration are taking the same stance.
 

DarloRich

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MCRUA send Northern regular notifications of local events. However, the Serco/Abellio administration usually saw events in Cheshire as being insignificant and it seems the Arriva administration are taking the same stance.

They need to ensure their notifications meet with whatever system Northern use and go to the appropriate person. They also need to make an official request for support rather than just telling the company something is happening and expecting support.

I am sure they do that but it is best not to assume!
 

Starmill

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Does it take a genuis to work out that the Cheshire Show is on? It's a very large event by the standards of the area, it's well advertised and planned significantly in advance.
 

DarloRich

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Does it take a genuis to work out that the Cheshire Show is on? It's a very large event by the standards of the area, it's well advertised and planned significantly in advance.

yes but using the old adage: If you don't ask you don't get!

How are Northern to know that extra trains are required if you don't tell them you want them ( you might have decided on a fleet of buses or magic carpets) and engage with them early enough to come up with a plan?
 

Clip

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Youll probably find that the antimacassars are a paid for bit of advertising and not somethign that Northern have done off their own back with their own money just to be nice.
 

aformeruser

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How are Northern to know that extra trains are required if you don't tell them you want them ( you might have decided on a fleet of buses or magic carpets) and engage with them early enough to come up with a plan?

The Cheshire Show has been happening the same week of the same month at the same location since 1990*. If Northern need a reminder every year do they also need a reminder that the Leeds festival happens every year or that Christmas shopping happens every year?

* It was cancelled in 2001 due to the foot and mouth outbreak
 

DarloRich

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The Cheshire Show has been happening the same week of the same month at the same location since 1990*. If Northern need a reminder every year do they also need a reminder that the Leeds festival happens every year or that Christmas shopping happens every year?

* It was cancelled in 2001 due to the foot and mouth outbreak

The point that you all seem to be, perhaps deliberately, missing is that if you don't ask Northern to resource extra trains for your event how do they know you want them? It doesn't matter if the event is on the same time every year! But then why let anything get in the way of a good old complain about how awful Northern are!
 
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aformeruser

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But then why let anything get in the way of a good old complain about how awful Northern are!

In the original post I was making the point about Northern not promoting the show. You keep complaining about Northern getting subsided too much and then defend them when they throw away an opportunity to make additional revenue because you expect the paying passengers to inform Northern of business opportunities. :roll:
 
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DarloRich

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In the original post I was making the point about Northern not promoting the show. You keep complaining about Northern getting subsided too much and then defend them when they throw away an opportunity to make additional revenue because you expect the paying passengers to inform Northern of business opportunities. :roll:

no: I expect a business that wants support to ask for it. A user group sending out a blanket, diary type, email is not the same thing. If done soon enough everyone can be happy!

But then perhaps clairvoyance is more prevalent in Manchester than elsewhere!
 

hairyhandedfool

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MCRUA send Northern regular notifications of local events. However, the Serco/Abellio administration usually saw events in Cheshire as being insignificant and it seems the Arriva administration are taking the same stance.

The "Arriva administration" are the same people, in the same jobs, with the same equipment, working from the same offices, with instruction ultimately [not] coming from the same head office in York.
 

Starmill

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no: I expect a business that wants support to ask for it. A user group sending out a blanket, diary type, email is not the same thing. If done soon enough everyone can be happy!

What, exactly, do you want them? You want people to tweet, send emails or call customer relations to point out to them opportunities where they can make more money and carry more passengers? You really think that's a sensible suggestion?
 

tbtc

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you'd think Northern would take the opportunity to try and attract extra passengers. However, from their website and social media accounts it seems they have no idea of a big show happening around 3 miles from one of their routes

Aside from the traditional moan about how much quieter services are east of the Pennines, where's the meat here?

What do you expect Northern to be doing?

You keep telling us how busy the trains are on normal weeks, so is there capacity for thousands more passengers? I'm sure there'd soon be a thread asking why dozens of extra carriages weren't found, if Northern had tweeted about it and demand had risen?

Could Mid Cheshire stations cope with significantly longer trains, if capacity can be found? Would it be profitable to put that extra capacity on, for the sake of one busier morning service and one busier afternoon service?

If the event has been going for twenty five years then won't people already know about it anyway, and already have plans to get there?

As for Sonic Journey - it's specific to the railway experience in a corner of the country that doesn't attract the regular tourists - this seems an interesting development to promote a relatively "hidden" part of England to outsiders - https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...urney-rail-travel-blake-morrison-gavin-bryars - I'm not sure why you are so against it?

http://festival.yorkshire.com/events/sonic-journey

For Yorkshire Festival 2016, two of the county’s most renowned artists, composer Gavin Bryars and poet Blake Morrison, joined forces to create a new work to be experienced on the stopping train journey from Goole(Bryars’ birthplace) to Hull (or vice versa).

The piece, called The Stopping Train, is designed specifically for this journey following the sequence of stations between Goole and Hull. From 16 June you can download the free audio to your personal device and take the stopping train in either direction to experience the music moving through the landscape that inspired it. Or just listen wherever you choose.

Sonic Journey: Gavin Bryars + Blake Morrison is composed as a series of movements be played as the stopping train leaves each station on the journey between Goole and Hull or vice versa. Scored for viola, cello, bass, electric guitar and spoken voice, Morrison's poetry refers to the personal history of Bryars in the area as well as to topographical and historical material. The work was recently recorded at National Theatre, London by Gavin Bryars (bass) and Blake Morrison (spoken voice) together with members of the Gavin Bryars Ensemble with sound design by Mic Pool.

Throughout the day on 21 June, 20 headphones, provided by global audio specialist Sennheiser, will be installed in aNorthern train carriage for listeners to experience the piece aboard the Goole to Hull / Hull to Goole stopping service

...i.e. it's publically funded art designed to be experienced from the train - the kind of thing I thought we'd be in favour of on here?
 

aformeruser

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Aside from the traditional moan about how much quieter services are east of the Pennines, where's the meat here?

What do you expect Northern to be doing?

You keep telling us how busy the trains are on normal weeks, so is there capacity for thousands more passengers? I'm sure there'd soon be a thread asking why dozens of extra carriages weren't found, if Northern had tweeted about it and demand had risen?

Could Mid Cheshire stations cope with significantly longer trains, if capacity can be found? Would it be profitable to put that extra capacity on, for the sake of one busier morning service and one busier afternoon service?

In drawing up the franchise specification it was decided Northwich-Manchester loadings justify significantly more trains than are currently provided and extra services should be provided as soon as additional stock can be sourced (2017.)

I was asking why Northern have chosen not to promote the event. A local Councillor tweeted Northern about the Cheshire Show and they didn't even re-tweet it which is unusual.

There's two things I think Northern could have done without too much effort:
1. Promote the 2 services which are booked as 4 car. While those services are strengthened due to school loadings it's exam season so not all year 11 and sixth form pupils will be in all day every day.
2. Used units that would be used on the partially closed Buxton route to strengthen additional services.

If the event has been going for twenty five years then won't people already know about it anyway, and already have plans to get there?

The event has actually being going on for 175 years but it's been using the current location since 1990.

People might have plans to drive but if they are regulars they'll know the roads are a nightmare and a public transport alternative might be very attractive. If they are new to the area or haven't been before they might be unsure how to get there.

As for Sonic Journey - it's specific to the railway experience in a corner of the country that doesn't attract the regular tourists - this seems an interesting development to promote a relatively "hidden" part of England to outsiders - https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...urney-rail-travel-blake-morrison-gavin-bryars - I'm not sure why you are so against it?

From the wording of the Tweets I was under the impression Sonic Journey was one of the main events of the Yorkshire Festival - obviously it's been oversold.
 

RAPC

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Simply put, the event organisers haven't asked for any additional support. This isn't speculation as I work for one of the companies who are involved on the marketing side to promote the event.

There is a transport plan that includes the shuttle buses, as well as local traffic management etc. There has not been a request for additional support from Northern beyond connecting rail services with the shuttles.

As for the local Councillor who Tweeted Northern, I assume they are not part of Cheshire East Council? If they are, they need to ask questions internally as the Council were involved in the setting of the transport plans for the event and signed off on them.
 

aformeruser

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As for the local Councillor who Tweeted Northern, I assume they are not part of Cheshire East Council? If they are, they need to ask questions internally as the Council were involved in the setting of the transport plans for the event and signed off on them.

It was a town Councillor who tweeted about the train + shuttle bus being an option of getting to the show if you are going and included Northern's handle on it. Usually Northern retweet those kind of things.
 

RAPC

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The newish @NorthernAssist Twitter feed re-tweets a lot less than the previous version. A quick read through and it appears to mainly be supporting events it is partnered with, so it seems pretty consistent.

Had CASCIO chosen to do so, then Northern could have been approached to partner up at which point, I suspect there would have been some support.

Worth speaking to the organisers at CASCIO if anyone feels strongly about getting Northern involved for next year.
 

aformeruser

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tbtc said:
If the event has been going for twenty five years then won't people already know about it anyway, and already have plans to get there?

Just saw an interview with one of the organisers of the show on the ITV local news and he thanked all the people living in cities like Manchester and Liverpool for coming to the show to find out about the agriculture industry.
 
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