Northern's Problems in the North West

[swanhill41]

On various facebook sites ,in particular with regards to the Preston and Fylde areas ,it appears that Northern have very serious issues with both staffing and with train services..The full reopening of BPN to Preston line is in a shambolic state...It is now in effect official that the line will not be fully operational till the start of summer timetable in late May 2018...Reason train the drivers etc etc...There is also issues with trains in the Preston area,with what is called a staff shortage...This disease is also to be found on the line Carnforth -Barrow,Carnforth-Morecambe lines and also complete shutdown of the Windermere branch with the attendant issues of upsetting well heeled tourists from abroad going to the Lakes.
The whole farce also has issues with shortage of stock etc.

Other than to say that there are serious issues with management,I believe there are issues with the FINANCES of the franchise....My view and I think the upset punters also, when are trains going to return to the lines in question.?

I know that at present the replacement buses are still running and will be running till late May ...Blackpool Transport will be happy to a point as it has in effect underwritten 17 new double deckers.

What is the odds on franchise being handed back?

 

[tiptoptaff]

What is the odds on franchise being handed back?

Zero.

 

[Merseysider]

also complete shutdown of the Windermere branch

Eh? Trains have been running.

 

[DarloRich]

On various facebook sites ,in particular with regards to the Preston and Fylde areas ,it appears that Northern have very serious issues with both staffing and with train services..The full reopening of BPN to Preston line is in a shambolic state...It is now in effect official that the line will not be fully operational till the start of summer timetable in late May 2018...Reason train the drivers etc etc...There is also issues with trains in the Preston area,with what is called a staff shortage...This disease is also to be found on the line Carnforth -Barrow,Carnforth-Morecambe lines and also complete shutdown of the Windermere branch with the attendant issues of upsetting well heeled tourists from abroad going to the Lakes.
The whole farce also has issues with shortage of stock etc.

Other than to say that there are serious issues with management,I believe there are issues with the FINANCES of the franchise....My view and I think the upset punters also, when are trains going to return to the lines in question.?

I know that at present the replacement buses are still running and will be running till late May ...Blackpool Transport will be happy to a point as it has in effect underwritten 17 new double deckers.

What is the odds on franchise being handed back?

Is this rambling nonsense basically a thinly veiled statement from you on your views on the financial health of the Northern franchise and an accusation from you that any issues faced in Lancashire are because of penny pinching?

 

[TrW]

As someone using this service through Manchester i can confirm there is some fundamental issue ongoing for at least two weeks.

At one point yesterday there was 26 cancelled services all due to a lack of rail drivers / staff as listed on their website. Pretty much every single train operated by Northern on the Manchester Oxford Road board had ‘cancelled’ or ‘delayed’ appended after the listing.

This is clearly more than a few minor issues

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Eh? Trains have been running.

Oxenholme-Windermere (after 1400) and Ellesmere Port-Helsby were bustituted yesterday because of shortage of drivers.
Both back today though, so far.
I imagine it's a side effect of the intensive driver training on the Preston-Blackpool line rather than some endemic problem.

 

[TrW]

Possibly true^^^

One conductor told me what he thought was causing the issues and it wasn't driver training. Although as a disgruntled employee he could have an axe to grind

 

[Loop & Link]

Rest Day working agreement ended a while ago and no surprise there have been cancellations ever since.

On top of that, drivers have been released to go route learning and traction training, and with no one available to cover the shortfall, trains have been cancelled.

 

[TrW]

That's interesting to hear.

As people close to the industry would you have expected cancellations to the scale as seen recently?

As a retail customer and despite having a season ticket, I have taken to driving into Manchester for work as the level of certainty is so much I have no confidence I can get home.

 

[Bantamzen]

Is this rambling nonsense basically a thinly veiled statement from you on your views on the financial health of the Northern franchise and an accusation from you that any issues faced in Lancashire are because of penny pinching?

I suspect it is on the back of this MP's complaints:

WESTMORLAND and Lonsdale MP Tim Farron has told managers at the rail company Northern that passengers on the Lakes Line are choosing to boycott the line because they are so fed up with the poor service. In a face to face meeting, Mr Farron put Northern managers on the spot. People have been subjected to a number of cancellations and long delays in recent months. Mr Farron has also written to the Department for Transport calling for Arriva Rail North to be stripped of the franchise.

Representatives from Northern explained that the spike in the number of cancellations in was down to issues with staff shortages.They also mentioned that last year’s announcement that electrification of the line had been cancelled had resulted in slower, less reliable diesel trains being used. Mr Farron said: “Over the past six weeks, my postbag has been filled to the brim with letters from local people who are sick and tired of turning up to the station to find their train has been cancelled.

“I’ve seen it for myself too when I’ve been at Oxenholme and Windermere stations recently. “I was able to express people’s frustrations when I met with Northern last week. “Fourteen cancellations in a day is simply not good enough and local people deserve better than this shambles."

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co...ts_with_rail_bosses_to_discuss_cancellations/

Its the latest thing amongst MPs, jump on some issues & call for the franchise holder to be instantly stripped of their franchise. Because that will instantly solve the problem....

 

[47802]

Well I guess you could speculate on the financial health of the franchise although I guess it would be nothing more than that, but the continual DOO/DCO strikes carn't be helping, the extended closure of Blackpool North - Preston and the consequent unreliable service in that area since reopening, and particularly we have the major timetable of improvements being delayed by 6 months in some cases and a year in other cases.

 

[Red Devil]

On various facebook sites ,in particular with regards to the Preston and Fylde areas ,it appears that Northern have very serious issues with both staffing and with train services..The full reopening of BPN to Preston line is in a shambolic state...It is now in effect official that the line will not be fully operational till the start of summer timetable in late May 2018...Reason train the drivers etc etc...There is also issues with trains in the Preston area,with what is called a staff shortage...This disease is also to be found on the line Carnforth -Barrow,Carnforth-Morecambe lines and also complete shutdown of the Windermere branch with the attendant issues of upsetting well heeled tourists from abroad going to the Lakes.
The whole farce also has issues with shortage of stock etc.

Other than to say that there are serious issues with management,I believe there are issues with the FINANCES of the franchise....My view and I think the upset punters also, when are trains going to return to the lines in question.?

I know that at present the replacement buses are still running and will be running till late May ...Blackpool Transport will be happy to a point as it has in effect underwritten 17 new double deckers.

What is the odds on franchise being handed back?[/QUOTE
The problem is very few drivers have been sent to road learn. None at all at my depot and very few from Victoria or Wigan.
Rest day working agreement finished hence driver's can' t be released to road learn and the train plan can' t be covered adequately. That' s why all the cancella

As previously stated the rest day working agreement finished so no extra drivers to cover holidays, sickness and gaps in the train plan.
And also road learning. At my depot not a single driver has been sent road learning the Blackpool route and very few from Victoria or Wigan.

 

[Red Devil]

Ps. This will only get worse now we are entering the summer leave block when drivers are off for a fortnight.
There are other issues such as 323's. Driver' s released for that so no cover for the train plan. I could go on and on

 

[swanhill41]

Yes it was a bit of a ramble,but there is in the posting a lot of facts/happenings that have been confirmed in later posts....It seems to me that there are two issues here.
1....The dispute between train staff and company over DOO...This appears to have caused very major issues both with scheduled trains and training on BPN line,319,323's etc etc ...No staff equals no trains and if I read one post by Northern staff member ,there is going to be long lasting issues on line to BPN....As far as I am aware there is no EMU driver training as yet on BPN line ?..Approx 4 weeks to start of summer timetable.
2....There is also a problem with rolling stock,shortages and also being in wrong place etc.

In all this where are the management ?....The negative PR that is being created with the travelling public will be hard to eradicate....A lot of customers on Northern patch have alternative ways of getting about and this not London commuter area ,where you are stuffed for alternative modes of transport at the right time and speed .

 

[The_Engineer]

As far as I am aware there is no EMU driver training as yet on BPN line ?.

As yet the Blackpool North overhead has not been energised or tested. After that it needs approval for passenger train operation. Whether all this will be done or not in time for the 18th May new passenger service has been discussed at depth on the "Manchester to Blackpool Electrification" thread.

 

[cuccir]

It does seem that there are some genuine problems in the area. There were no services on the Windermere line yesterday (24th April) after the 16:00 from Windermere. It looks like none have been running today since the 10:56 from Windermere, though trains after 13:30 aren't (yet?) showing as cancelled.

 

[Adam0984]

Preston has been shambolic last week and this week so far. Trains are running to diagrams that have the trains going to Blackpool and crews just told that it’s terminating short at Preston which means that no driver is booked to shunt any units at Preston so incoming trains are been left in the platform if the driver isn’t willing to shunt and outgoing trains are still in the sidings so need shunting into Platforms at a moments notice leading to late departures. Trains are been held outside the station as there is no platforms available

 

[pemma]

Oxenholme-Windermere (after 1400) and Ellesmere Port-Helsby were bustituted yesterday because of shortage of drivers.
Both back today though, so far.
I imagine it's a side effect of the intensive driver training on the Preston-Blackpool line rather than some endemic problem.

Ellesmere Port-Helsby services are all showing as being cancelled again this afternoon, while Windermere service is suspended until around 14:00. It seems to be a problem with certain depots rather than a problem across the network.

 

[swanhill41]

As yet the Blackpool North overhead has not been energised or tested. After that it needs approval for passenger train operation. Whether all this will be done or not in time for the 18th May new passenger service has been discussed at depth on the "Manchester to Blackpool Electrification" thread.

Yes I am very aware of that thread....But it does not get away from the very strong impression being given that for all the money spent the truth of the matter is that trains are not running,and that looking to the future the electrics looks as though they will be delayed....What was sold as a job that will be up and running in March 2019 is looking very suspect based on info that is being posted by workers for Northern.....
So yes on these forums we know some of the truths behind the headlines,but look at it from the very average joe public point of view..
Where's me train ....Not a bloody bus again!

 

[swanhill41]

Preston has been shambolic last week and this week so far. Trains are running to diagrams that have the trains going to Blackpool and crews just told that it’s terminating short at Preston which means that no driver is booked to shunt any units at Preston so incoming trains are been left in the platform if the driver isn’t willing to shunt and outgoing trains are still in the sidings so need shunting into Platforms at a moments notice leading to late departures. Trains are been held outside the station as there is no platforms available

I think you have proved my point!.....Where is the management ?....Hmmm!

 

[pemma]

I think you have proved my point!.....Where is the management ?....Hmmm!

That's actually happened with TPE services before. A TPE train blocks a Northern unit in with the TPE unit due to run ECS before the Northern unit departs in passenger service but the Northern service gets disrupted as the driver for the TPE ECS movement doesn't turn up.

 

[swanhill41]

Just seen the dates posted for May ref strike action !!....Definitely unable to see electrics starting to BPN on due date now.

 

[The_Engineer]

I just have been monitoring Preston on RTT, seeing services to both Blackpool South and Ormskirk being cancelled. Several of the driver training runs to Blackpool North also scratched.

 

[Bertie the bus]

In all this where are the management?

On jollies to Spain to see shiny new trains?

Its the latest thing amongst MPs, jump on some issues & call for the franchise holder to be instantly stripped of their franchise. Because that will instantly solve the problem....

Yes, you can expect a kneejerk, populist reaction from MPs but I wouldn't trust the current lot to deliver the planned enhancements.

It has been mentioned above the service around Preston has been shambolic for the last week. It has been shambolic for a lot longer than that.

 

[Loop & Link]

I just have been monitoring Preston on RTT, seeing services to both Blackpool South and Ormskirk being cancelled. Several of the driver training runs to Blackpool North also scratched.

Blackpool Depot one of the worst affected with the current shortages, one Blackpool job, 11:03 Wigan-Lime St/12:01 return is caped almost daily as a result.

And as mentioned earlier, the traincrew dockets are a mess, traincrew shown to travel pass on services that don’t exist, resulting in delayed starts at Preston as traincrew need taxiing from Blackpool.

e.g: Traincrew are shown to book on at 11:05 to work the 11:20 Blackpool N-Man Vic, service obviously starts at Preston at 11:50, late start inevitable as by the time traincrew book on (10 mins + walking time) and get taxied to Preston, it’s not going to happen!

 

[pemma]

Yes, you can expect a kneejerk, populist reaction from MPs but I wouldn't trust the current lot to deliver the planned enhancements.

It's worth remembering stripping a company of a franchise can result in improvements being postponed or cancelled. When NX got stripped of the East Coast franchise that meant the plan to introduce new Lincoln to London services using 180s was scrapped.

 

[BeHereNow]

Deleted

 

[muddythefish]

Shambolic "private" ownership and classic British mis-management.

 

[142blue]

Someone say strike dates?

 

[amywok]

Travelling south off the 17.36 Lytham to Preston - saw online it was bustituted at 17.55. Got to station 10-15 mins early to find bus leaving early. At Preston departure boards showing cancellations to Barrow, Ormskirk, Colne all blamed on driver shortages. Added to knock on impact of earlier WCML signaling issues pretty grim with pissed off punters.

If this is down to ban on rest days and Blackpool training - poor management and planning seems to be the root cause.