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Northern's social media policy criticised by Which?

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pemma

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The Guardian said:
A consumer watchdog has accused rail companies of “adding insult to injury” by blocking people on social media when they complain.

Which? said Northern rail – which cancelled hundreds of trains this week during the bungled launch of its new timetable – had been blocking passengers after they complained about the service on Twitter.

Alex Hayman, managing director of public markets at the consumer body, said: “Train companies should be bending over backwards to help passengers who have been enduring hundreds of cancellations and appalling customer service, not adding insult to injury by ignoring their complaints.”

In one example, a Twitter user called Kat Harrison-Dibbits said she had been blocked for complaining “every time [her] train was cancelled, very delayed or too full to get on”.

Hayman said Which? regularly heard stories of operators failing to engage with customers or handle their complaints fairly. “Across the country paying passengers are facing unacceptable disruption at the hands of firms that don’t seem to think their views matter,” he said. “The transport secretary must now get a grip on this mess and ensure train companies start treating their passengers with respect.”

A Northern rail spokesperson said: “We have a clear social media policy, on our website, that outlines what customers can expect from Northern’s social media team and what we expect in return.

“Blocking users is not something we do lightly and something we would never do for those who simply complain about our services. If anyone believes they have been blocked or muted unfairly, we ask them to contact our customer experience centre if they want further clarity on the decision.”

It has been a difficult week for the train operator. Northern, which runs trains across the north of England, the east Midlands and Staffordshire, launched its new timetable on Sunday but scores of trains had to be cancelled because of a shortage of drivers. The company described the change as “a significant operational challenge” and told commuters to expect disruption as the new timetable “beds in”.

There was further disruption for Northern passengers on Thursday as the RMT staged industrial action over the future role and responsibilities of guards on the train, which was set to be repeated on Saturday. So far, over 1,000 Northern services have been cancelled over the past 14 days.

David Brown, managing director at Northern, a subsidiary of Arriva UK Trains, apologised for the cancellations and delays, saying customers deserved better.

“We are introducing 1,300 new train services a week, and fitting in these and other train companies’ services has meant that we have had to change 90% of our timetabled trains. This is the biggest modernisation that the Northern railway has had for generations.

“The new timetable was planned and delivered in four months compared to the normal nine-12 months because a key improvement – electrification of the Manchester-Bolton line – has been delayed and this meant rewriting our plan and then training drivers at the last minute.”

Despite Monday being the first weekday of a new timetable for rail companies across Britain, it was passengers on Northern lines who were hardest hit. Andy McDonald, the shadow transport secretary, said this was because of a historic lack of investment in the region’s rail infrastructure.

“We’ve got to stop running train services on their bare bones, because this is what happens when you do,” he said. “It falls into crisis and then there is huge damage to the economy. Having private operators who simply look at their own bottom line is a false economy.”

The minister for transport, Jo Johnson, said the government was investing over £1bn in rail improvements and that commuters would see the benefits once “current teething problems subside”. He said the government had drawn up an action plan with Transport for the North to deal with the problems on Northern lines.

In a statement after a phone call with the transport secretary, Chris Grayling, on Thursday, the metro mayors of the Liverpool city region and Greater Manchester, Steve Rotheram and Andy Burnham, said their discussion had revealed “a considerable distance between the government’s view of this situation and ours”.

“Talk by government ministers of ‘teething problems’ suggests that these are only recent problems linked to the new timetable, when in fact Northern passengers have faced disruption over a much longer period of time,” they said. “Any solution needs to address the endemic staffing shortage in order to avoid any repeat.”

The pair said Arriva Rail North’s franchise should be removed if it failed to improve. Burnham has previously demanded an inquiry into Northern’s failing services, before timetabling troubles hit this week. “Chaos on the North’s rail network has been so extreme and so prolonged that as a company Northern have lost the benefit of the doubt,” they said.

“They simply cannot be permitted to keep inflicting a miserable sub-standard service on the hundreds of thousands of passengers across our region who have had to endure dire train travel for far too long.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...itter-complainers-insult-to-injury-rail-chaos

Maybe now a TOC has been publicly criticised for blocking passengers on social media, others may start changing their social media policies? Although, I'm not sure Northern's 'customer experience centre' will do much with any complaints about unfair blocking!
 
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Z12XE

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Good on Northern.

I'm note sure how more people don't get blocked on these various wastes of bandwidth and time across all the TOCs. People who complain daily must be a nightmare for those who man these, and they really should just be an information feed, any real complaints should go via the Customer Relation routes,

People like Lee_147 and Stowtom and Gordon from Witham twittering every petty little issue should be blocked not entertained .

Even better all TOCs should do. Wetherspoon and just delete the whole thing.
 

mde

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Good on Northern.

I'm note sure how more people don't get blocked on these various wastes of bandwidth and time across all the TOCs. People who complain daily must be a nightmare for those who man these, and they really should just be an information feed, any real complaints should go via the Customer Relation routes,

People like Lee_147 and Stowtom and Gordon from Witham twittering every petty little issue should be blocked not entertained .

Even better all TOCs should do. Wetherspoon and just delete the whole thing.
Probably because most customers are not a waste of time - end of the day it's cheaper for the TOC to answer a tweet than it is to answer a phone call and relevant stuff can go out to a far wider audience.

Wetherspoon's social media attempts were poor, so, it's no wonder they decided not to continue them.
 

Z12XE

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I don't have any issue with it being an information service for general stuff, but those who get blocked are those who are either abuse or continually ask the same things, question TOC policies and procedures daily, comment on every short form (don't forget to CC in the local MP) or cancellation, hijack conversations and be General nuisance.

Bring on the day Twitter goes the way of MySpace.
 

johntea

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I think the problem with Northern and their twitter feed (perhaps others too, I only really glance/tweet Northern now and again) is passengers do the usual daily rants and in some ways the Twitter team fuel the fire somewhat as all they can generally provide is copy and paste answers.

I don’t particularly see what else passengers can do though, I’ve currently got 2 complaints in through the customer service email route and still awaiting a satisfactory response to both over a month on!

They do need to stop with the memes and quizzes and whatever else they do now and again and just concentrate on getting information out though, at a guess the feed is generally probably going to be staffed by young individuals who aren’t going to get too much job satisfaction having to deal with 90% complaints and 10% praise so it is understandable how they can get stressed out easily and start blocking people etc. Then of course the blocked users just go running to the gutter press!
 

Roy Badami

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Preventing genuine troublemakers from commenting is one thing. However, denying those people easy access to information about service issues is not acceptable.

(And if it's not possible to do the former without the latter, then maybe they shouldn't be using Twitter to diseminate this information. Regardless, attempting to deny particular individuals access to service update information is unacceptable.)
 

Darandio

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Preventing genuine troublemakers from commenting is one thing. However, denying those people easy access to information about service issues is not acceptable.

(And if it's not possible to do the former without the latter, then maybe they shouldn't be using Twitter to diseminate this information. Regardless, attempting to deny particular individuals access to service update information is unacceptable.)

Do you mean denying them viewing the main feed? Because they are not being blocked from that.
 

northernchris

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I think the problem with Northern and their twitter feed (perhaps others too, I only really glance/tweet Northern now and again) is passengers do the usual daily rants and in some ways the Twitter team fuel the fire somewhat as all they can generally provide is copy and paste answers.

I don’t particularly see what else passengers can do though, I’ve currently got 2 complaints in through the customer service email route and still awaiting a satisfactory response to both over a month on!

I think you're right there - most responses are copy and paste but this is probably down to the high volume of tweets and low staffing numbers. It does create a problem though, as I suspect some issues could be dealt with fairly promptly and wouldn't require 3 or 4 tweets going backwards and forwards to then be told to contact Customer Experience Centre and endure a 4 week wait for an answer. There's also one of the team who comes across as quite rude, which no doubt does provoke a few frustrated people - and I did feed that back in one of the surveys I got after contacting them
 

mde

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Do you mean denying them viewing the main feed? Because they are not being blocked from that.
If you are blocked on their twitter account (@northernassist) you won't be able to view the feed - you'll get a message advising you are blocked.
They do need to stop with the memes and quizzes and whatever else they do now and again and just concentrate on getting information out though, at a guess the feed is generally probably going to be staffed by young individuals who aren’t going to get too much job satisfaction having to deal with 90% complaints and 10% praise so it is understandable how they can get stressed out easily and start blocking people etc. Then of course the blocked users just go running to the gutter press!
The railway has a bit of an image issue when it comes to the media as a lot of the stories are rather negative - having some positive interaction is by no means a bad thing, it helps boost the image, and, perhaps it even helps encourage some enthusiasts… ScotRail, for example, have done two live streams in recent weeks of steam services - Scotsman over the Forth Bridge and, today, 62005 'Lord of the Isles' going through Queen St low level on its way to do the Jacobite. These tend to get a good reception in comparison to the usual stream of complaints. And, in both, it was probably a fun shift for the staff since it got them out of the office!

In Northern's case, a recent one they did was posting obscured pictures of unit frontends and asking people what the unit was - it's lighthearted, not really a big distraction and makes things just a little bit nicer - in effect, it's nothing more than the conductor saying something polite while checking your ticket. :)

It is, of course, very easy to do it wrong - see for example the 'meme stream' over at Virgin which can annoy some, or, the snippy replies that GTR used to come out with, but, done correctly, theres space for more than yes/no answers and timetabling information.

There's also one of the team who comes across as quite rude, which no doubt does provoke a few frustrated people - and I did feed that back in one of the surveys I got after contacting them
Those little surveys that they DM after an interaction must produce some interesting feedback…
 

Darandio

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If you are blocked on their twitter account (@northernassist) you won't be able to view the feed - you'll get a message advising you are blocked.

Then you just log out. I can view the feed, I don't have a Twitter account.
 

Bwlch y Groes

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Obviously I can't say much about the case cited by the various newspapers covering this publicly, but what I will say is that the reports from the papers and Which? themselves have not provided any examples of any of the messages that the customer sent us

I think the problem with Northern and their twitter feed (perhaps others too, I only really glance/tweet Northern now and again) is passengers do the usual daily rants and in some ways the Twitter team fuel the fire somewhat as all they can generally provide is copy and paste answers.

Even before the current upturn in messages this week due to the major disruption, we were still getting around 1,000 messages each weekday, with a decent chunk of these (up to 150 per hour) falling during or shortly after the morning and evening peaks - there's usually only one person manning the feed at this time. Most of these are very similar complaints about common issues - overcrowding/short-forms, cancellations, a lack of a resolution from Customer Experience etc. You can only word the same thing so many ways, so I don't see what the problem is - is it the wording or the answer itself?

All TOCs manage their social media very differently, and where it sits in the company structure influences how each team is managed and their priorities. ATW's sits as part of Customer Relations, and as a result it is quite customer-focused. CrossCountry's sits as part of Control, and is therefore very information-focused. The Virgin teams have traditionally been quite content-focused but that has changed lately. Northern's sits as part of Communications which basically means we do a bit of everything - it used to be a very information-focused team but less so in recent times. I think our team works really well and it's a pleasure to be a part of it, so it's extremely frustrating to see stories like this - not just for us but all the TOC social media teams who do a fantastic job in challenging circumstances
 

Roy Badami

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Then you just log out. I can view the feed, I don't have a Twitter account.

I realise that any reasonably technical Twitter user will be aware they can do this - but I also strongly suspect that there'll be a fair few who don't realise they can - particularly, I imagine, those using the Twitter app rather than the Twitter website. (Just guessing here - never used the app.)
 

mde

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I think our team works really well and it's a pleasure to be a part of it, so it's extremely frustrating to see stories like this - not just for us but all the TOC social media teams who do a fantastic job in challenging circumstances
It's sabre rattling really - I wouldn't be too worried about it. :)
 

Joe Paxton

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Preventing genuine troublemakers from commenting is one thing. However, denying those people easy access to information about service issues is not acceptable.

(And if it's not possible to do the former without the latter, then maybe they shouldn't be using Twitter to diseminate this information. Regardless, attempting to deny particular individuals access to service update information is unacceptable.)

Any individuals who have been blocked can view a Twitter feed via the browser instead of their app, or if logged in via the browser they can use a different browser. (So long as said Twitter feed hasn't been protected for friends only, but no company using it for mass communications does that.)
 

whhistle

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The problem is, despite it being around for many years now, Twitter has taken companies by surprise. And many companies still don't understand it's strengths and weaknesses.

I use it as a quick way to rant or get some help. But now my expecatation is that if I don't have a response within 5 minutes, I am annoyed. That's because the service that's generally been provided in the past year or so has been more or less instant responses.

However you have people who use Twitter and want something that won't be solved, to be solved - instantly. Social Media people can't magic trains out of no where. They can't fix catering issues, nor can they convince drivers to do overtime.
Having someone go on and on and on about something that either isn't the TOCs fault (which is never accepted by the person anyway), or is un-fixable at that moment in time is the worst. And people should realise it isn't their right to be replied to. People should also realise the problem won't be solved right away and NOTHING will change their mood in that moment.

It goes back to the choice thing. You either choose to travel by train and risk having a bit of a rubbish time, or choose another method of travel.
For most people, the train, despite it's "poor" service, is the most practical and thus feel that's the only choice they have. Just because it's the only choice, doesn't mean it has to be rubbish, I agree, but the fact is, travelling by train isn't going to be easy and hassle free all the time, and with some TOCs, it isn't hassle free most of the time. It's not right, but it's the way it is.

I get annoyed by traffic lights and slow drivers.
Do I moan to the highways agency? No. I accept that's just how life is.

Social Media should be used to give out information (cancellations, short forms, catering, blah blah) and capture general feedback/complaints and produce reports so heads of departments can see on any given month what people complained about the most. That's it.
Pandering to and trying to resolve a complaint via Twitter isn't ever going to work.
 

pemma

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Any individuals who have been blocked can view a Twitter feed via the browser instead of their app, or if logged in via the browser they can use a different browser. (So long as said Twitter feed hasn't been protected for friends only, but no company using it for mass communications does that.)

You can't use the Twitter app on a mobile unless you're signed in.

While if you're signed out and viewing Twitter on a browser you lose any preferences you have like not having videos autoplay and you can only see Tweets but not replies to Tweets. So for example:
Northern might tweet: The xx:xx service from A to B has been cancelled.
Passenger A might reply saying: That's the last train to C. Are you organising a replacement bus, if not I'm stranded.
Northern might respond saying: We are arranging a replacement bus and will give approx times shortly.

The person who is blocked will only be able to see "The xx:xx service from A to B has been cancelled." and none of the responses.
 

Darandio

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You can't use the Twitter app on a mobile unless you're signed in.

While if you're signed out and viewing Twitter on a browser you lose any preferences you have like not having videos autoplay and you can only see Tweets but not replies to Tweets. So for example:
Northern might tweet: The xx:xx service from A to B has been cancelled.
Passenger A might reply saying: That's the last train to C. Are you organising a replacement bus, if not I'm stranded.
Northern might respond saying: We are arranging a replacement bus and will give approx times shortly.

The person who is blocked will only be able to see "The xx:xx service from A to B has been cancelled." and none of the responses.

You still have me confused here.

Not using an app and viewing a Northern Tweet in a browser when not signed in I can look at the latest message they have posted and by highlighting it can view the 17 replies to it.

Unless i'm missing something.
 

Geezertronic

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There are far too many keyboard warriors out there and they should be treated with the contempt they deserve. No doubt there will be a case in the UK soon when a company will be sued for blocking someone, similar to the case in the US
 

pemma

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You still have me confused here.

Not using an app and viewing a Northern Tweet in a browser when not signed in I can look at the latest message they have posted and by highlighting it can view the 17 replies to it.

Unless i'm missing something.

I was slightly wrong. You can view replies to a Tweet Northern posted by clicking on the tweet but you can't click on the 'Tweets & replies' tab and view responses Northern have given to tweets from other passengers which aren't directly replying to a Northern tweet.
 
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Starmill

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People who complain daily must be a nightmare for those who man these
I think you mean "people who complain daily must be suffering so much from this substandard service, it must be a nightmare for them".
It goes back to the choice thing. You either choose to travel by train and risk having a bit of a rubbish time, or choose another method of travel.
If true, and I'm not disputing it, this is something of a damming indictment of our country, let alone our railway.
 

JaJaWa

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Then you just log out. I can view the feed, I don't have a Twitter account.

Any individuals who have been blocked can view a Twitter feed via the browser instead of their app, or if logged in via the browser they can use a different browser. (So long as said Twitter feed hasn't been protected for friends only, but no company using it for mass communications does that.)

No, Twitter makes you create an account now if you try and scroll down too far / click on too many posts / press to view more Tweets (see attached).
 

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js1000

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Good on Northern.

I'm note sure how more people don't get blocked on these various wastes of bandwidth and time across all the TOCs. People who complain daily must be a nightmare for those who man these, and they really should just be an information feed, any real complaints should go via the Customer Relation routes,

People like Lee_147 and Stowtom and Gordon from Witham twittering every petty little issue should be blocked not entertained .

Even better all TOCs should do. Wetherspoon and just delete the whole thing.
I guarantee it's cheaper than having to deal with phone calls and emails.

And you have to aware word of mouth is a pretty destructive weapon in this day and age where everything is connected. A lot companies fish out negative tweets to show they care/improve.
 

Darandio

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No, Twitter makes you create an account now if you try and scroll down too far / click on too many posts / press to view more Tweets (see attached).

And you can press the X to remove it and continue viewing. Source? Been viewing without an account for years now.
 

JaJaWa

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And you can press the X to remove it and continue viewing. Source? Been viewing without an account for years now.
Source? Me. I can hardly read anything until I login. And pressing X won’t go to want I want to view, it shows what I was viewing before I clicked the link.
 

CHAPS2034

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As I reported on another thread, their Twitter information is already under scrutiny as part of their recovery plan from this mess.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...rthern-plan-delayed-cancelled-trains-14703864

Government bosses have been forced to come up with a ‘recovery plan’ for Northern following hundreds of cancelled and delayed trains.

Driver rostering, training and additional contingency drivers will be introduced as part of the action plan developed by The Rail North Partnership.

Northern has also agreed to put extra services in place at peak times along the Bolton corridor, including between Buckshaw and Manchester Victoria and Preston and Manchester Oxford Road.

The plan, seen by the M.E.N, also included ‘improved communications’ from Northern on Twitter, so customers are kept up to date.
 
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PeterC

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I think you mean "people who complain daily must be suffering so much from this substandard service, it must be a nightmare for them".
There is a very small but very vocal subset of the population who are obessive complainers regardless of justification. Everybody who works in a customer facing role will encounter them at some point in their lives. When you had to write a letter, buy stamps, and walk to a postbox every time they were usually just an amusing distraction but I hate to think what some of the weirdos that I had to be polite to in my younger days would be like with social media.
 

WelshBluebird

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People who complain daily must be a nightmare for those who man these

And it must be even more of a nightmare for those doing the complaining then!

I complain to GWR quite often on Twitter because the trains I catch are quite often late or cancelled, and knowing why, or at least getting an update on what is going on, helps me plan what I do next. Will the delay just be a few mins in which case no problem, will it be half hour in which case I may need to replan things, or will it just not turn up in which case I may aswell leave the station there and then and get the bus!

Sadly, the usual systems (NRE, GWR's app / website, journeycheck etc) are often pretty poor (either not showing the issue at all, or just showing "delayed" or showing a delay that increases by a minute as each minute goes by) and so quite often Twitter is the quickest way I can actually get information, especially when I travel from unmanned stations (which is very often as my commute is between two unmanned stations).
 

Starmill

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There is a very small but very vocal subset of the population who are obessive complainers regardless of justification. Everybody who works in a customer facing role will encounter them at some point in their lives. When you had to write a letter, buy stamps, and walk to a postbox every time they were usually just an amusing distraction but I hate to think what some of the weirdos that I had to be polite to in my younger days would be like with social media.
I don't see how this is at all relevant to the thread.

This is about people complaining. That can be done perfectly politely. What you're talking about is just straightforward rudeness, which is a different subject. You could always create a new thread.
 

Bwlch y Groes

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I don't see how this is at all relevant to the thread.

This is about people complaining. That can be done perfectly politely. What you're talking about is just straightforward rudeness, which is a different subject. You could always create a new thread.

What PeterC is perfectly relevant in relation to the subject of the article this thread is based on. On the Northern social media desk we welcome constructive criticism. We don't block people for complaining in and of itself - we block people for being rude or aggressive, jumping in on other people's conversations, or asking the same questions repeatedly after receiving a comprehensive answer. It just so happens that there's rarely clear blue water between all of this
 
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