• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northumberland Line to be re-opened to passengers

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
As Rich said this money is purely to fund the next phase of design work not a guarantee of the line opening. As for politics I happen to think most of these seats are borrowed because people were voting for who would deliver Brexit at the Ballot Box in December plus in 2024 the Tories will pay a heavy price for their perceived mishandling of the pandemic
This is probably true. The only hope they have of maintaining support is to be seen to have done something for these areas - and quickly.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,331
This is a decision already made surely? It’s known to be a heavy rail DMU service via the ECML, hence earlier posts wondering what possible involvement Nexus could have?

I was clarify the debate others were having about what the proposal could even be.

It is indeed my understanding that it's a DMU service as you describe, but my understanding is that there are no decisions on the operator, whether that be a franchise TOC or for Nexus to separately contract.
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,424
I was clarify the debate others were having about what the proposal could even be.

It is indeed my understanding that it's a DMU service as you describe, but my understanding is that there are no decisions on the operator, whether that be a franchise TOC or for Nexus to separately contract.

It probably wouldn't be for Nexus to contract in any case. Whilst they are partners the project is being led from Northumberland County Council as the vast majority of the line is in their area (Nexus only having jurisdiction in the smaller Tyne and Wear part). However I concede by the time this is built it may not be a franchise TOC as we don't know what the Northern franchise will be like and the areas have asked for parts to be devolved.
 

Mordac

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2016
Messages
2,303
Location
Birmingham
It probably wouldn't be for Nexus to contract in any case. Whilst they are partners the project is being led from Northumberland County Council as the vast majority of the line is in their area (Nexus only having jurisdiction in the smaller Tyne and Wear part). However I concede by the time this is built it may not be a franchise TOC as we don't know what the Northern franchise will be like and the areas have asked for parts to be devolved.
How does Nexus interface with the new North of Tyne combined authority, which basically covers the history county of Northumberland (e.g. Northumberland County Council, and the boroughs of Newcastle and North Tyneside)?
 

Chris NS

Member
Joined
19 Apr 2020
Messages
62
Location
Durham
How does Nexus interface with the new North of Tyne combined authority, which basically covers the history county of Northumberland (e.g. Northumberland County Council, and the boroughs of Newcastle and North Tyneside)?

I can't remember the details, but this was taken into account when they set it up.

I think it had something to do with NECA taking the place of Newcastle and North Shields on Nexus's governing body.
 

Mollman

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2016
Messages
1,211
At PMQs today one of the Tory MPs in the North East asked the PM for support over opening a railway line between Consett and MetroCentre. Unfortunately the BBC live feed seemed to ignore that question and Hansard isn't up yet so I can't quote it here at the moment. Boris referred it to the Transport Secretary.
 

Chris NS

Member
Joined
19 Apr 2020
Messages
62
Location
Durham
At PMQs today one of the Tory MPs in the North East asked the PM for support over opening a railway line between Consett and MetroCentre. Unfortunately the BBC live feed seemed to ignore that question and Hansard isn't up yet so I can't quote it here at the moment. Boris referred it to the Transport Secretary.

TfN caught it on Twitter.

I've just opened a thread in speculative ides.
 

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Regarding the organisations north of the Tyne that are involved in this project, would it have been far simpler to have it as a partnership between Tyne & Wear Passenger Transport Executive [sic - unsure of "branding" nowadays] and Northumberland County Council?

I recall that in my original neck of the woods in the West Midlands, back in the second half of the 1980s there was a partnership between West Midlands PTE and Staffordshire County Council that reinstated passenger services between Walsall and Hendesford which happened in 1989. These passenger services were subsequently extended to Rugeley Town, Trent Valley, and Stafford before being curtailed to Rugeley TV in the mid Noughties.
 

Mollman

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2016
Messages
1,211
Regarding the organisations north of the Tyne that are involved in this project, would it have been far simpler to have it as a partnership between Tyne & Wear Passenger Transport Executive [sic - unsure of "branding" nowadays] and Northumberland County Council?

I recall that in my original neck of the woods in the West Midlands, back in the second half of the 1980s there was a partnership between West Midlands PTE and Staffordshire County Council that reinstated passenger services between Walsall and Hendesford which happened in 1989. These passenger services were subsequently extended to Rugeley Town, Trent Valley, and Stafford before being curtailed to Rugeley TV in the mid Noughties.
That's sort of what the North of Tyne Combined Authority is. Nexus acting on behalf of Newcastle City and North Tyneside councils. Unfortunately the politics of the region has prevented a proper North East Combined Authority.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
Regarding the organisations north of the Tyne that are involved in this project, would it have been far simpler to have it as a partnership between Tyne & Wear Passenger Transport Executive [sic - unsure of "branding" nowadays] and Northumberland County Council?

The politics mean that isn't possible. Newcastle and North Tyneside left NECA to form the NTCA. To keep Nexus representation, NTCA now sit on the NECA transport committee. Confused? Clear as anything :lol:

It all stems from everyone else in T&W thinking Nick Forbes would be a shoo-in for NTCA Mayor, despite Nick Forbes being pretty much universally loathed. He lost to a Momentum candidate (shudder, but anyone's better than Forbes!), but by then South Tyneside, Gateshead and Sunderland had refused to get involved.

As for the line, this is the best chance we've got to get it re-opened whilst Blyth and Wansbeck are marginal constituencies.
 

gimmea50anyday

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2013
Messages
3,456
Location
Back Cab
If the connections were timed well, would there be a shift of Metro passengers from the coast changing to Northumberland line trains at Northumberland Park in order to reach Central Station/Manors quicker?

I suspect you'd have to work in close proximity to Manors or Central to be advantageous (i.e. not if you're bound for Jesmond/Haymarket/Monument), plus it would depend on fares, i.e. not many would pay more to have one faster connection per hour and would probably just sit on the Metro the whole way.

I would imagine fares would be interchangeable at Northumberland park just as they are at Heworth and Sunderland. Some Tickets are integrated with bus, metro and ferry anyway and include heavy rail blaydon/metro centre-central-Sunderland (not Durham tho as some people keep trying!) so this will likely extend that.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,063
The north east has been repartitioned back to Northumberland north of the Tyne and County Durham south of the Tyne. Quite rightly, IMHO.

However, the residue of Tyne and Wear still uncomfortably straddles the divide, especially in the realm of transport, and in particular the Metro.

Extending 'metro' (small m) services out of the former T&W is a good thing, but it needs to apply equally both north and south. An integrated zonal fare system extending beyond the T&W boundaries would be a possibility, but such systems get complicated when you have more than one focal urban centre.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
The north east has been repartitioned back to Northumberland north of the Tyne and County Durham south of the Tyne. Quite rightly, IMHO.

However, the residue of Tyne and Wear still uncomfortably straddles the divide, especially in the realm of transport, and in particular the Metro.

Extending 'metro' (small m) services out of the former T&W is a good thing, but it needs to apply equally both north and south. An integrated zonal fare system extending beyond the T&W boundaries would be a possibility, but such systems get complicated when you have more than one focal urban centre.
So you then have a county boundary along the Tyne right through the main urban centre of the region. Transport through the whole conurbation needs to be co-ordinated so you effectively have to ignore that boundary - the Tyne and Wear area makes much more sense in that respect.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,532
And there is no mention of Blyth and Tyne or any other North East scheme
Different scheme - ie not part of the Restoring your Railway scheme - see a different part of Grant Shapps's statement - it was mentioned explicitly in his talk today
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss Northumberland Line to be re-opened to passengers
 

Killingworth

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
4,812
Location
Sheffield
The devil is always in the detail. Business case. Politics, finance, engineering, and timing.

The Metro came at the right time. Engineering is the least of the issues now. Post COVID nobody knows how the finances are going to pan out. Shapps can make all sorts of encouraging noises now, but ultimately it will be national financial priorities that determine what gets done and when.

This initially looks to be one of the easiser projects to deliver, and relatively it may be.

South East Northumberland has changed a lot since the line was last used for a passenger service running into Manors. Then it was coal mines, rows of colliery wagons and pit heaps all around. No coal mines today, no colliery yards, and most of the pit heaps have been landscaped out of recognition. New roads and private housing developments have transformed the region. Anyone who has not been there for 50 years woud find it hard to recognise the place.

There's the potential market all but proved, just needing some figures to fill the gaps.

The trackbeds are mostly still intact, except for running into Blyth itself. It's mostly level ground so there are some level crossings that are likely to provide conflict with traffic on major roads.

50 years ago most folks lived near the old stations and walked or used bikes. Today they're more dispersed and use cars - on those new dual carriageways. Providing parking space is likely to be challenging if passengers are to be attracted from their cars and fill enough trains to make the business case.

I note it's intended to be served by DMUs. I'd have thought electrified from the start and continued to Metrocentre would be a sensible bolt on option to any plans.
 

gimmea50anyday

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2013
Messages
3,456
Location
Back Cab
If you want electric trains running on the Blyth and Tyne through to the metro centre you also need knitting stung up to at least as far as blaydon, while you are at it you may as well carry on to Hexham, in which case does Carlisle then stack up?

But then isn’t there supposed to be plans to see the metro extended from St James Park through the west end and eventually end up at the metro centre? So the question then raises wether it’s worth adding to the metro and electrifying at 1500v or keeping it mainline and at 25kv? The electrification used on metro seemingly complicating its and adjoining lines isolation and therefore wether remaining diesel/hybrid powered in the area is the best case option
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
The Northumberland planning website has a recently updated “request for screening opinion” due to proposed changes to the scheme. A good illustration that nothing is ever settled, proposals are continuously reviewed:
As a consequence of the changes to the scheme a further RfSO is being submitted (this document) which sets out the changes:

It has become apparent that there may be a need to and benefits from identifying and reserving additional land for future car parking (to provide for potential growth up to the year 2039) at the stations proposed at Blyth Bebside, Ashington and Seaton Delaval. The full extent of the increase in car parking is identified in Chapter 2.

The scheme is likely to now include the closure of the level crossing at Newsham and the short-localised diversion of Laverock Hall road over the rail line with the construction of single carriageway bridge. The station for Newsham would be located at the former crossing.

The scheme is likely to now include the closure of two-level crossings. The crossing at Chase Meadows will be replaced by a footbridge. The crossing at Hospital Land will either be replaced with a footbridge or underpass.

The previous RfSO proposed that the station at Bebside was to the north of the level crossing on Front Street. The station will now be sited to the south of the small housing estate (Heather Lea) off Front street.
link to planning application page, this is from the documentation “supporting statement”:
 
Joined
24 Mar 2019
Messages
255
Location
The Canny Toon
Saw this on the BBC website. Seems very positive: a step beyond feasibility studies.


Exploratory work is getting under way for the proposed reintroduction of a passenger rail line in north-east England, 56 years after services ended.
Soil and rock samples are to be taken on the route of the Northumberland Line from Ashington to Newcastle to test ground conditions and check for mine workings.
Services could be running again by 2023 if the scheme is given the go-ahead.
Ground investigations will begin on Monday.
Over the next few months there will be drilling at more than 80 locations as engineers gather information.
Some boreholes will extend 80m (260ft) below ground level, Northumberland County Council said.
 
Last edited:

DH1Commuter

Member
Joined
28 Jun 2018
Messages
57
Possibly a daft question, but why are ground investigations needed for a line that is not only active, but currently carries freight trains far heavier than the passenger trains likely to be used for this service? Is this for the proposed station/car park sites, rather than the actual lines?
 

CEN60

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
266
Possibly a daft question, but why are ground investigations needed for a line that is not only active, but currently carries freight trains far heavier than the passenger trains likely to be used for this service? Is this for the proposed station/car park sites, rather than the actual lines?

The proposal is to track double in places - so G.I. required
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
The proposal is to track double in places - so G.I. required
Also, there’s new station platforms and car parks, not usually in original or existing positions, AFAICS. That’s possibly a high proportion of the investigation work.
 

gingertom

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2017
Messages
1,251
Location
Kilsyth
Possibly a daft question, but why are ground investigations needed for a line that is not only active, but currently carries freight trains far heavier than the passenger trains likely to be used for this service? Is this for the proposed station/car park sites, rather than the actual lines?
we could always hope they are looking to see where to put OLE support masts and run emus.
 

Killingworth

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
4,812
Location
Sheffield
I'm delighted to see this project proceeding and am encouraged to see the plans for stations and car parks. The level crossings may be contentious. As a lad I cycled the roads in that area, and later in my first old cars. Delays for coal trains were quite frequent. Modern motorists will have to get used to a much more disruptive experience.

However the suggestion of trains running by winter 2023 seems very optimistic. I know they've been working very hard on this for a long time but so have, and did, other projects.

The one of which I have most knowledge was being considered 15-20 years ago. The first public consultations were in November 2013, the second and third rounds were in January and July 2015. A public inquiry was held in May 2016. The Transport and Works Act Order came in February 2018. The project has still to receive HM Treasury approval (maybe by December?) and construction could start in January 2022 with completion by June 2023. 10 years from first consultation to operation, and we still aren't sure of that.

Plenty of time to add in masts and service ideas to the Northumberland plans. I really hope I'm wrong and will be able to ride on a regular service train in 2023. At present I feel even 2025 might be on the optimistic side.
 
Last edited:

Top