Norwood Junction to Lincoln: Ticket validity question

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ert47

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Just purchased a YP single ticket travelling from Norwood Junction to Lincoln with a seat reserved for the 0930 East Coast service from Kings Cross.

First of all, I booked the tickets yesterday around 3pm expecting to pick it up from Norwood later that day. I got to the station after 11 that day to try to pick it up, to find that none of the machines would work - they couldn't read my card (A Natwest Debit), so not wanting to leave it to the day of travel, I decided to jump on the train to East Croydon in order to pick it up as learning from past experience - the ticket staff at Norwood (a LO station) are unable to retrieve tickets on the system.

Now, today I was refused entry through the barriers by the Gateline Assistant because the ticket I was using was invalid as it was a YP ticket and not vaild until half 9 (despite having a seat reservation for a train on the other side of London at half 9). I've had to use my Oystercard for the first part of my journey because of this.

My question is whether I would be able to be able to claim back any funds lost due to the 2 problems mentioned above?
 
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island

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Definitely the second one. The pre-1000 restriction on Y-P discounted tickets doesn't apply during July and August and the gateline assistant should have known that. (Did you specifically point out this fact?)

The first one is a bit more tricky. Is Norwood Junction in the dropdown list of places where you can pick up your ticket?
 

ert47

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To add to this, when I transfered to the Underground the tickets were accepted by the gates and then again when passing through the NR gateline at Kings Cross.

I usually have my tickets refused at London Bridge by the gates as they have the YP railcard applied, but the Gateline staff usually let me through.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yep, it was a Southern managed station before the LO services started running 2 years back. I usually use Norwood as my station to collect tickets. The last time I had problems was when my debit card was a Maestro.

East Croydon is like the main station in the area so I think its only place where you can pick up prebooked tickets from the office (the next stations would be Clapham Junction and then the London terminals).

As for the July/August restrictions, I completely forgot about that. :/
 
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Brucey

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I would write a letter to London Overground as their staff were definitely wrong. You should request a refund for the fare on the day of travel. As for the collection, the equipment at Norwood Junction should be capable of issuing tickets from the ticket office.

There are three points to note:
1. The time restriction is based on a minimum fare, not a blanket ban on the railcard's use. Many staff don't seem to understand this.
2. The railcard minimum fare does not apply in July or August.
3. If your ticket is an Advance fare, then the railcard minimum fare is not applicable.
 

ert47

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Thanks for all your help! I will get a letter written up as soon as possible.
 

bb21

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If it is an Advance ticket, then minimum fares do not apply at any time.

If it is a walk-on ticket, I fail to see any fare that falls below the minimum fare level. In addition, there is no restriction on the leg from Norwood Junction so I cannot see any reason you could possibly be refused entry.
 

yorkie

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Now, today I was refused entry through the barriers by the Gateline Assistant because the ticket I was using was invalid as it was a YP ticket and not vaild until half 9 (despite having a seat reservation for a train on the other side of London at half 9).
This is incorrect.

There is a minimum fare applicable 16-25 Railcard discounted tickets for travel in September - June (inclusive) of £12.00, that applies before 10:00, to most walk-up ticket types. It does not apply to any ticket used in July or August.

So, the gateline assistant got the wrong time, the wrong month, and failed to notice the ticket price was over £12.00 (if it was a walk-up ticket) or the ticket type was Advance (if it was an Advance ticket).

You definitely need to write to get a refund, and ask for a date by which all staff will be adequately trained.

I am more than happy to proof read a letter.
 

ert47

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yorkie:1146999 said:
Now, today I was refused entry through the barriers by the Gateline Assistant because the ticket I was using was invalid as it was a YP ticket and not vaild until half 9 (despite having a seat reservation for a train on the other side of London at half 9).
This is incorrect.

There is a minimum fare applicable 16-25 Railcard discounted tickets for travel in September - June (inclusive) of £12.00, that applies before 10:00, to most walk-up ticket types. It does not apply to any ticket used in July or August.

So, the gateline assistant got the wrong time, the wrong month, and failed to notice the ticket price was over £12.00 (if it was a walk-up ticket) or the ticket type was Advance (if it was an Advance ticket).

You definitely need to write to get a refund, and ask for a date by which all staff will be adequately trained.

I am more than happy to proof read a letter.

Thanks, it was an advanced ticket and cost me £21 so either way cost me more than the minimum restriction.
 

Brucey

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Thanks, it was an advanced ticket and cost me £21 so either way cost me more than the minimum restriction.

Well, that's three things that would make the ticket valid before 10am that they failed to notice:
1. Advance ticket
2. More than £12.00
3. July
 

bb21

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Thanks, it was an advanced ticket and cost me £21 so either way cost me more than the minimum restriction.

Advance fares are not subject to the minimum fare of £12. Someone has obviously either not done his/her homework or was badly trained.
 

ert47

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@Yorkie: Sorry it has taken me a while, I am wondering if that offer to proof read the letter to London Overground would be still available?

Thanks
 

RJ

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Advance fares are not subject to the minimum fare of £12. Someone has obviously either not done his/her homework or was badly trained.

Or forgotten, perhaps? Railway staff are human too and can forget minute details! Not everyone has the same level of aptitude as the prodigies and geniuses on here!
 

LexyBoy

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Or forgotten, perhaps? Railway staff are human too and can forget minute details! Not everyone has the same level of aptitude as the prodigies and geniuses on here!

I agree that the lack of a minimum fare on Advances is probably the most likely to be forgotten of the reasons why it was valid, but in this case the ticket was over the minimum fare anyway.

Sounds much more like there was some confusion about when Railcards are valid (and that rules varies between Railcards), or perhaps a belief that "Railcard & Off Peak is after 0930".
 

yorkie

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- Ticket over £12 anyway so minimum fare non-applicable
- Ticket type is not subject to the minimum fare
- The current month is exempt from the minimum fare
- The ticket is only valid on the 0930 out of Kings Cross so it is obvious that departure from Norwood Jn would need to be considerably before that time

To ignore those 4 reasons is either extremely bad training or utter incompetence.

I can understand someone forgetting and making a mistake but when it was pointed out to them and they are shown the reservation coupon, to still refuse entry to the customer, is not excusable, and goes beyond merely forgetting!

If I treated a customer in that way and denied them access to a facility they had clearly paid for, I would expect to be told off big style and receive a verbal warning.
 

ert47

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Or forgotten, perhaps? Railway staff are human too and can forget minute details! Not everyone has the same level of aptitude as the prodigies and geniuses on here!

I regulary use the station and have only seen (or noticed) this assistant in the last 2 or so months. Im not sure if she is new or has transferred from another station as the staff at the station seems to change quite a lot.

But now it makes travelling a little more awkward as I usually say hello as I walk past.
 
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ert47

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I'd like to say thank you to everyone who helped me in this matter, I have recieved a letter of apology and a rail voucher from London Overground reimbursing the price of the Oyster travel! :)

I have never seen a rail voucher before so am unsure whether to cash it in or not! XD (Tis valid for a year)
 

yorkie

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Good result :)
I have never seen a rail voucher before so am unsure whether to cash it in or not! XD (Tis valid for a year)
You can use it to buy any ticket (change is not given) or you can use it to add PAYG balance.

The voucher itself is only valid for a year, but if converted into PAYG balance that balance will remain until you use it.
 
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