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Not allowed onto platforms without a train ticket

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PhilipW

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An interesting article about a person not being allowed on the platform to see her parents off.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...railway-station-platform-restrictions-1.63662


Stuart Gillespie in The Dundee Courier said:
Daughter upset by railway station platform restrictions

A DUNDEE woman has hit out at the treatment of elderly rail passengers after she was refused permission to escort her parents on to a train.

Fiona MacGregor was shocked when she was not allowed through the barriers to wait with the couple on the platform at the city’s railway station.

Her parents, both in their eighties, were returning home to Preston after spending the festive period with their daughter.

Ms MacGregor, who has recently moved to Dundee from Dumfriesshire, said: “I went to the ticket office to see about a platform ticket but was told that in order to go on the platform I would need to buy a train ticket.

“The cheapest one was to Broughty Ferry and in desperation I agreed to purchase one.

“Then I was told I would have to buy a return ticket because I would need to be able to get both in and out of the barriers.”

Ms MacGregor balked at the cost of the return ticket and was again refused entry to the platform after pleading her case to a different member of staff.

She added: “My poor parents had a heavy suitcase and some bags of Christmas presents.

(read more)


Apparently, according to ScotRail, this is due to security reasons.

What a load of old rubbish. Whatever happend to commonsense ?
 
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Monty

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An interesting article about a person not being allowed on the platform to see her parents off.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...railway-station-platform-restrictions-1.63662

Apparently, according to ScotRail, this is due to security reasons.

What a load of old rubbish. Whatever happend to commonsense ?

If it's a compulsory ticket area then those are the rules, however I don't think there are many stations classed as such these days. Regardless staff are at liberty to refuse access to the station at their own discretion. I imagine it has more to do with the of suspicion ticketless travel rather than security though.
 

Mojo

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The Scotrail spokesman is wrong. Platform tickets are still issued at numerous stations on the national network, and even on the London Underground! Indeed, they are compulsory at stations with Compulsory Ticket Areas (which Dundee is not) and written into Penalty Fare schemes where a CTA is being set up. There is no UK-wide restriction. I have asked for access to platforms without a ticket on hundreds of occasions and never been refused. And what a load of froth about security.
 

Goatboy

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I wonder if she initially failed the 'attitude test' at the gateline? I have never, ever been refused entry to a platform I've tried to enter without a valid ticket.
 

Yew

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There is no UK-wide restriction. I have asked for access to platforms without a ticket on hundreds of occasions and never been refused. And what a load of froth about security.

I wonder if this 'UK wide' restriction applies in Northern Ireland too? <D
 

asylumxl

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I wonder if she initially failed the 'attitude test' at the gateline? I have never, ever been refused entry to a platform I've tried to enter without a valid ticket.

Could also be she isn't a local. Southerner. But probably she had a crummy attitude.
 

wintonian

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I wonder if she initially failed the 'attitude test' at the gateline?

Who the passenger or the staff on the gateline? In my experience it's possible for either to fail this so called 'attitude test'. Besides I don't think the attitude of a single passenger can create a nationwide security policy overnight, even if SotRails press office can. ;)
 

ryan125hst

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I understand the risk of fare evation, but I think that where someone is wanting to see an elderly or disabled friend or relative on or off a train, they should be allowed to access the platform. Dundee is staffed, so surely it would would have been possible to keep an eye on her if they thought she intended to fare evade.

Even if they have to pay for a 10p platform ticket, they should be allowed onto the platform.

What are you thoughts on this?
 

Wath Yard

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Amazing how you can deduce that from the story. You must have the powers of Sherlock Holmes, especially when ScotRail's response was it is company policy not to allow non-travelling members of the public onto platforms at gated stations.
 

fraser158

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When I was at Dundee not so long ago taking pictures of the Northern Belle, I went to the platform staff office to ask for permission to take photos.

I had a valid ticket already so had no problem getting on the platform.

The response was something like "Well, as you've asked, the answer is technically no."

He let me take photos anyway but said I could be asked to stop.

I found it all a bit confusing, as ScotRail's own guidelines seem to say otherwise.
 

Trainfan344

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I understand the risk of fare evation, but I think that where someone is wanting to see an elderly or disabled friend or relative on or off a train, they should be allowed to access the platform. Dundee is staffed, so surely it would would have been possible to keep an eye on her if they thought she intended to fare evade.

Even if they have to pay for a 10p platform ticket, they should be allowed onto the platform.

What are you thoughts on this?

In the story it said she was told a Platform ticket wasn't available, Had a similar situation at Norwich just after the barriers were installed there, Had been for a morning out with my Grandmother, me and my Mother took her to the station and before the barriers were installed, it was common practice for us to help her put her suitcase onto the train, when we asked at the security gates if it was possible for us to do this, we were told we would have to buy a train ticket, so in the end we had to ask one of her fellow passengers to help her onto the train.
 

route:oxford

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Strange how the same company can have different policies in different gated stations.

I've never had a problem at Oxford.

"Hello, I was wondering if it would be ok for me to pass through to the platform area. My elderly parents are on the cross-country service from Wolverhampton."
 

YorkshireBear

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This subject has come up before, isnt it written in the byelaws somewhere that when stations are ticket barrierd provisions must be made for people not wishing to catch a train such as family and enthusiasts.
At some there is platform tickets, at some others they just let you through.

Does anyone have this to hand?
 

Ediswan

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ScotRail desperately trying to blame somebody else for their own poor customer service. "Security", is twaddle. Fare evasion also seems unlikely given that this was a departure, with the elderly relatives present.
 

wintonian

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I must admit that 'security' seems to becoming a by-word for either 'your not allowed to but I don't know why' or 'this company/ organisation does not want people to do that/ go there for no logical reason other being just plain awkward'. When anyone says it's for your security or for the security of our valued passengers you know it's a load of twaddle.
 

Ferret

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I suppose one could argue there's no point in a ticket barrier if you let people through without tickets! And, there's no actual need for people wanting to assist grandparents onto the train to pass through the barrier if there are sufficient staff to do the job (until McNumpty gets his way).

So, it falls to a question of whether it's good PR to allow people through in these circumstances. And you'd have to say it probably is - and what platform tickets were invented for. As for the quote regarding 'security', as somebody else pointed out - whenever anyone mentions that word, 9 times out of 10, it's total gibber. Who knows what went on at the time - could be that the aggrieved had an attitude, or it could be that the barrier staff wasn't in an agreeable and rational mood. We shall never know.....
 

Goatboy

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I suppose one could argue there's no point in a ticket barrier if you let people through without tickets!

From a station like Dundee though where its highly likely that they'll have to buy one on the train - at full price - surely the barriers are more to stop people leaving without tickets having arrived on a train where they didn't get sold one.
 

Ferret

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From a station like Dundee though where its highly likely that they'll have to buy one on the train - at full price - surely the barriers are more to stop people leaving without tickets having arrived on a train where they didn't get sold one.

The answer to your question lies in whether the staff solely check those leaving the station, or whether they check those joining;)



 

Mojo

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This subject has come up before, isnt it written in the byelaws somewhere that when stations are ticket barrierd provisions must be made for people not wishing to catch a train such as family and enthusiasts.

There is no such provision in the Byelaws or anywhere else. However there is a requirement for Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs).

The DfT's Penalty Fares Policy says the following:
At stations with a CTA, operators must make arrangements for people who are not travelling to be allowed into the part of the station covered by the CTA, if they have a good reason. This includes people who are meeting passengers, seeing passengers off or helping them with luggage, people helping passengers with disabilities, and people such as railway enthusiasts. The arrangements might include making platform tickets available at the ticket office or from a machine. People who are helping passengers with disabilities should not be charged to enter a CTA.
But there is nothing in general for stations with ticket gates. Very few stations are actually CTAs.
 

YorkshireBear

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The DfT's Penalty Fares Policy says the following:

But there is nothing in general for stations with ticket gates. Very few stations are actually CTAs.

Thats what i was looking for thank you get confused with stuff like this sorry, is there a list of CTAs anywhere?
 

Phil6219

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I've only been told "no" once, at a "gate" (effectively two G4S people in Northern Rail Uniform with a table and a ticket machine), I just said "Ok, I'll have a platform ticket then please", after the digested that for a minute or two they waved me through.

That's nothing against them though as I've had no other problems, waving my camera seems to be proof enough - or is it that not even a fare evader would impersonate a train spotter? <(

Phil 8-)
 

Bedpan

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One would think that it would be the norm for platform tickets (paid for or not) to be available at stations where ticket gates were provided. Surely its not beyond the wit of man to produce a platform ticket which expires after a certain time (say 30 minutes) which would then prevent its being used for fraudulent purposes. After all,London Travelcards and presumably other tickets issued for travel elsewhere are programmed not to allow re-entry within a certain period of being used to exit a station (15 minutes I think it is).

Its all very well being allowed through a barrier and onto the platform by a kindly gateline assistant, but there's always the risk that they won't be there for whatever reason when you come to leave.

I don't think that the word "security" should be confused with "terrorism" in the context of the situation referred to. I can see that there could be a threat to the security of Scotrail's revenue collection process if anybody arriving without a ticket can get through the barrier by professing to have "just seen their Grandma off".
 

34D

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I've even been allowed onto FCC platforms to meet people.

Agree this is either rude passengers or severe jobsworth staff.
 

wintonian

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I've even been allowed onto FCC platforms to meet people.

Agree this is either rude passengers or severe jobsworth staff.

In actual fact it looks more like a jobsworth company, or at least some burk that writes their policies

A spokesman for ScotRail stressed that only people with valid train tickets are allowed access to platforms where there are barriers.

They said this was a UK-wide security measure and was not exclusive to ScotRail, while platform tickets have not been issued for many years and Lockerbie station does not use barriers.
 

Flamingo

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The fact that it ended up in the paper (I mean, would you go to a journo over something like this?) smacks of a severe attitude failure by the (non) passenger in the first place!
 

wintonian

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The fact that it ended up in the paper (I mean, would you go to a journo over something like this?) smacks of a severe attitude failure by the (non) passenger in the first place!

You do have a point. I do sometimes wonder what type of person goes crying to the local rag over such trivialities..
 
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