Not having a valid ticket upon my person...and yet I did.

[jon0844]

Nothing annoys a cocky fare evader more than having staff remaining calm and professional. It's also essential for staff to do this as they have training on conflict avoidance, so the thought that 4 or 5 people might suddenly go through the pockets of someone unconscious to find a wallet is incredibly far fetched. The fact that the friend witnessed this makes it even more ridiculous.

This story must therefore go the way of many other threads from new users who come on and drip feed information to create outrageous situations that gain sympathy and pages and pages of debate, but were nothing more than a joke or dare.

 

[Greenback]

It is the drip feeding that is most irritating. the OP was along the line sof 'How do I appeal as I had a valid ticket but couldn't find it' then later on we have the allegations of poor behaviour from staff, the stress that this caused, then the rifling through of an unconscious persons pockets and wallet.

It does seem that there is often a link to the advice being given on here, in that if the advice is not what the poster wants to hear, more and more details are introduced in an apparent desire to change the nature of the advice being offered.

I think the original advice still stands. It's worth writing in and explaining the situation, but I can't really see a favourable outcome as no valid ticket was produced at the time. As to the other issues, if they happened at all, they are completely seperate.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

So you're saying that it's ok to justify not holding a ticket with "but you run a crap service?"

No, of course not.
And I'm sure you must realise that I don't believe such a justification.
I was asking why your attitude towards passengers appeared to be unnecessarily confrontational.

It does seem that there is often a link to the advice being given on here, in that if the advice is not what the poster wants to hear, more and more details are introduced in an apparent desire to change the nature of the advice being offered.

I guess that's one of the feaures of anonymity on the internet. A poster can 'devise' different scenarios and test the outcome of each without ever having to reveal which scenario actually occurred, if any.

 

[martinsh]

So you're saying that it's ok to justify not holding a ticket with "but you run a crap service?".

It would be wonderful if you could !!!:roll:

 

[Solent&Wessex]

So you're saying that it's ok to justify not holding a ticket with "but you run a crap service?"
I don't agree, the point I was making was that it's not a justification at all and that fare payers have ways of claiming compensation which don't involve fare evasion. We both know that that is not tantamount to taunting unfortunate passengers.

You'll be surprised the number of times that I've heard that excuse, but normally associated with people being in First Class with a Standard ticket.

Passenger has Std Class ticket in First Class when there are empty seats in Std. Upon inviting someone to move or pay once I was told "I'm not doing either, this train is always late and in a morning I always have to stand up". I politely pointed that this train was spot on time and had plenty of empty seats.

Other regular, similar excuses are:

"Everyone else de-classifies First Class so why not today?" (because the train isn't full)

"I pay £x hundred for my season ticket, I've paid for a seat"

"I don't want to stand up"

"The train is always late so I don't see why I should"

"My train was late this morning"

"First class was declassified this morning so I thought it would be ok now"

"No-one comes round normally"

 

[RJ]

But surely it's bad customer service, unprofessional and discourteous to remove passengers from a service they haven't paid for/can't show a ticket for?

 

[blacknight]

Staff could have called BTP as regards to intoxicated passengers without tickets & not providing details. Then BTP officer could have legally searched your wallet either discovering your missing ticket or had you nicked & done you for fare evasion failing to provide details & drunk in public place:cry:.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

But surely it's bad customer service, unprofessional and discourteous to remove passengers from a service they haven't paid for/can't show a ticket for?

Is it poor customer service, unprofessional and discourteous to remove people from a cinema screening if they haven't paid for a ticket? Of course it isn't!

 

[RJ]

Why would they have gone through your wallet (was it out in the open?) if they hadn't even asked for your ticket at that point?

Your story has to at least sound believable to have any credibility.

Are you going to say one of the members of staff tried to rape you next?

As far as I'm concerned, you're now in the 'troll' category and so there's really nothing else for me to say. Good luck with wherever you intend to take this story further.

"Homophobic influences" being mentioned elsewhere as well - coincidence?

 

[djw1981]

and then called your mother, for whom an early morning call from the Police would be welcome I'm sure....

 

[RJ]

Is it poor customer service, unprofessional and discourteous to remove people from a cinema screening if they haven't paid for a ticket? Of course it isn't!

But people have a right to be carried from A - B free of charge don't they? If you want a free ride, come to the railways!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

But people have a right to be carried from A - B free of charge don't they? If you want a free ride, come to the railways!

humour failure.... I get what you mean now
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally, what does missinggun mean by 'homophobic' influences?

 

[jon0844]

I went to see Paul yesterday at my local Odeon, and a few people near us had upgraded themselves to Premier seats - presuming it would be quite empty.

As it turned out, a lot more people arrived very late and in the end staff had to start checking tickets as it became clear that while everyone had allocated seats for this screening, people had assumed it was okay to sit anywhere.

It also transpired that a lot of people had upgraded themselves (must happen all the time) and were asked to move. At first, one couple pretended they'd lost their tickets - but it seemed quite clear that they were going to be asked to leave if they didn't find them (which they then did, and - shock horror - they were in the wrong seats!).

It's only £1 more to have a premier seat, but staff are well within their rights to ask people to move, or leave.

I think that we can consider a rail ticket as being no different to a cinema or theatre ticket, tickets to see football and so on.

 

[Ferret]

I went to see Paul yesterday at my local Odeon, and a few people near us had upgraded themselves to Premier seats - presuming it would be quite empty.

As it turned out, a lot more people arrived very late and in the end staff had to start checking tickets as it became clear that while everyone had allocated seats for this screening, people had assumed it was okay to sit anywhere.

It also transpired that a lot of people had upgraded themselves (must happen all the time) and were asked to move. At first, one couple pretended they'd lost their tickets - but it seemed quite clear that they were going to be asked to leave if they didn't find them (which they then did, and - shock horror - they were in the wrong seats!).

It's only £1 more to have a premier seat, but staff are well within their rights to ask people to move, or leave.

I think that we can consider a rail ticket as being no different to a cinema or theatre ticket, tickets to see football and so on.

It seems the done thing in this day and age to just try it on. I've lost count of the times I've had to boot people out of First Class this week alone! It wears a bit thin after a while.

 

[oversteer]

I think that we can consider a rail ticket as being no different to a cinema or theatre ticket, tickets to see football and so on.

Hardly...

...The snacks at stations are far, far cheaper

 

[jon0844]

Tell me about it. A £7.45 'deal' for a drink and popcorn, advertised as a big saving over the individual costs!

Suffice to say, we don't buy the snacks there, and given it's a University town - most of the students don't seem to buy anything either. We either bring our own stuff in, or just get a bottle of water (which is still about £2.60!) and the smallest bag of sweets. And, thanks to Orange Wednesday, we get one ticket free.

I do think that eventually they'll realise that the prices are so high that everyone is bringing in their own food/drink.

 

[alloneword100]

No. Because from the word go we were accused. .

"Oy, wake up scumbag, you haven't got a ticket!"? Is that how the conversation started? I don't think so, somehow.

Perhaps, having made the accusation that your wallet had been searched, you could now explain a bit more clearly exactly what happened? Because my guess is that it was your friend who said your ticket was in your wallet and got it out to go through it, throughout which you remained surprisingly (and possibly unconvincingly) asleep?

And can we have rather more details about why the staff claimed your friend's ticket was invalid?

As others have said, you have damaged your own credibility here by drip-feeding this information. And before the barrack-room lawyers start, I can't defame someone known only by a pseudonym...

 

[Clip]

Out of interest, have you had people who really did lose their ticket (and subsequently find it) and did you notice the difference in how they acted - given they knew they had one, unlike those who knew they didn't?

For one, I'd imagine those doing the 'pocket dance' aren't even trying to look for the ticket (that doesn't exist) and are more likely looking around and at you, to see how you're reacting and hoping that you'll let them off. The one that really has got a ticket but can't find it is probably almost forgetting you are there.

i ashamedly had this happen to me once.. had been out for the night in Newcastle after the football and got the first train home to London the next morning. Couldnt find me ticket cos i was hanging. Guard sold me a new one. found it just as he walked off and he came back and laughed at me and sorted me out there and then.

On the flip - Ive had it at barriers of my stations where they cant find it so on they go with the pocket dance and you do wonder how they can lose it but then find it again as soon as the RPI starts filling out the PF..

it can happen but without looking properly for it then the RPIs are going to assume you dont have one

 

[bb21]

I'm not sure if anyone here has studied anything to do with stress, memory, or cognitive function, but if you have then please speak up.

I can tell you that I teach psychology students at university and as a result can not only understand the stress that you were under, should your story be true, but also the psychological game that is being played now, which isn't rocket science for any bystander to tell. I am not going to say any more on this subject because it clearly isn't worth my time.

 

[Flamingo]

I think this thread is done. To summarise:
- OP posts saying that they had found their ticket AFTER being PF'd on the way home from a night out, what should they do.
- Advised that an appeal on "compassionate" grounds might be worth it, but on balance the PF had been correctly issued, probably better off to pay.
- OP then posts that their friend had been harassed by rude RPI's acting in a threatening manner.
- OP advised that if that was the case then complain, but this won't have any bearing on the PF, better off to pay that
- OP then says that they had paid that, but now the harassment of her and friend included her wallet being searched by threatening RPI's whilst she was unconscious, forgetting they had said in first post that they had been talking to RPI's refusing to give details, and had rang Mother (at 6am - I bet she loved being woken up by that call) who had told her to give details. As I have dealt with MANY unconscious / semi-conscious, drunk, drugged people over the years, the story now stinks higher than a cesspit in summer.

Conclusion: OP is having a hissy-fit at being "out-attituded" by RPI's and having story picked to bits on here / being told they were wrong.

 

[RJ]

(Time to lock it mods, or I'll start to tell long anecdotes about females with no tickets and attitude )

They get the same treatment as any other fare evader - manipulation by tears doesn't work on me!

 

[Flamingo]

It's the ones that spit fire and venom at you right up until BTP arrive, and then burst into tears with "He's bullying me, I'm trying to buy a ticket and he won't sell me one :cry::cry::cry:".

 

[bb21]

I think this thread is done. To summarise:
- OP posts saying that they had found their ticket AFTER being PF'd on the way home from a night out, what should they do.
- Advised that an appeal on "compassionate" grounds might be worth it, but on balance the PF had been correctly issued, probably better off to pay.
- OP then posts that their friend had been harassed by rude RPI's acting in a threatening manner.
- OP advised that if that was the case then complain, but this won't have any bearing on the PF, better off to pay that
- OP then says that they had paid that, but now the harassment of her and friend included her wallet being searched by threatening RPI's whilst she was unconscious, forgetting they had said in first post that they had been talking to RPI's refusing to give details, and had rang Mother (at 6am - I bet she loved being woken up by that call) who had told her to give details. As I have dealt with MANY unconscious / semi-conscious, drunk, drugged people over the years, the story now stinks higher than a cesspit in summer.

Conclusion: OP is having a hissy-fit at being "out-attituded" by RPI's and having story picked to bits on here / being told they were wrong.

Also I will add that the OP gave a different account (more dramatic if I may) of the incident on another messageboard, which eventually discredited his story in my mind.

The advice given on the other board was not dissimilar to the ones from here.

Time to put the thread to bed I totally agree.

 

[yorkie]

I think this thread has run its course. It is now closed.

To the OP, I would recommend you pay the penalty fare in this instance. Remember, it's not a fine or an accusation of guilt, and if Penalty Fare schemes are disliked (I'm no fan) by you and your mates, that's a separate matter which perhaps you could take up with your MP.