Not paying the right fare

[olurufi]

Pls, I need your advise. I was asked to give my name, date of birth and address today by the train ticket officers because I used a discount ticket (Jobcentre Plus Discount Card) that I was not eligible for. Meanwhile, I I just picked the cheapest ticket not knowing it wasn't meant for me until I was in the train this morning and they challenged me to product the discount card. I explained to them how I came across it but they didn't listen to me. They printed and gave me a paper that consist my details and then told me to be expecting from them in the next 1 week. So I don't know what could that mean.

Please, what should I do because I am scared

 

[Gloster]

Pls, I need your advise. I was asked to give my name, date of birth and address today by the train ticket officers because I used a discount ticket (Jobcentre Plus Discount Card) that I was not eligible for. Meanwhile, I I just picked the cheapest ticket not knowing it wasn't meant for me until I was in the train this morning and they challenged me to product the discount card. I explained to them how I came across it but they didn't listen to me. They printed and gave me a paper that consist my details and then told me to be expecting from them in the next 1 week. So I don't know what could that mean.

Please, what should I do because I am scared

Please post the paper that you received in this thread so that the experts can inform you exactly what the situation is. Please obscure your name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@olurufi. Good evening and welcome to the forum. It will be particularly useful if you could also provide the additional information requested in the following thread.

Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions

Guidance for those asking for advice: Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey The stations* where you changed...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[tskir]

@olurufi I understand this can feel very scary, and the experts of this forum will be along shortly to help you with the details of your case, but for now rest assured that:

1. Even in the absolute worst possible outcome, you're not going to prison for this. There hasn't been a single case of this ever happening as far as we know on this forum.

2. If the company that caught you is not TfL, then — if you follow the advice of the experts — you will almost certaintly able to negotiate an "out of court settlement" with the train company. This means you get to pay a certain sum of money, but you will not get a criminal record or any further repercussions.

3. If the company that caught you is TfL, then it's slightly worse, but for the vast majority of people it's nothing life changing or really serious enough; and something that will come to pass eventually.

As the two established forum members above requested, please provide details as to which company stopped you, where (from/to) you were travelling, and if you did similar things in the past.

 

[John R]

because I used a discount ticket (Jobcentre Plus Discount Card) that I was not eligible for. Meanwhile, I I just picked the cheapest ticket not knowing it wasn't meant for me

One of the things we advise people to do when replying to this kind of letter is to be completely honest. When I read this my immediate reaction was "yeah, right, of course you knew perfectly well that it wasn't meant for you" because it is kind of hard to think that you are entitled to select the option "jobcentre Plus Discount Card" if you don't actually hold such a card. And if you use that excuse in writing to the train company then I suspect the investigator who reads it will think the same and conclude that you aren't being honest with them.

So I'd suggest you think very carefully before explaining why you did it. If the truth is that you were chancing it to buy a cheaper ticket, then much better to apologise sincerely for trying to evade paying the correct fare than make up a story which is unlikely to be believed.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We need to know which train company you're dealing with. Also, the train company is highly likely to research your online ticket purchasing history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets with a Job Centre Plus Railcard then they will want to ask you about these tickets as well.

Can you post a copy of all the paperwork you've received (but to cover up any personal details and case reference numbers) and we can assist with next steps.

 

[olurufi]

Details recorded:
Time: 07/08/2023. 08:42hrs
Issued at: Gravesend
Issued on: Train
Journal from: Gillingham to Dartford
Class of Travel: Standard Class

Details recorded:
Time: 07/08/2023. 08:42hrs
Issued at: Gravesend
Issued on: Train
Journal from: Gillingham to Dartford
Class of Travel: Standard Class

Details recorded:
Time: 07/08/2023. 08:42hrs
Issued at: Gravesend
Issued on: Train
Journal from: Gillingham to Dartford
Class of Travel: Standard Class

To be honest, I didn't know how the train system works on the app. I just started using it last month and I never bought a ticket with a discount before now. I usually buy from the train station machine until a friend introduced a trainline app to me last month.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looks like @olurufi is dealing with Govia Thameslink.

Engaging positively with GTR will usually result in them being amenable to offering a so-called "out of court settlement" which, if that's what happens in the fullness of time, will likely cost the OP £12.10 (the unpaid undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare for a one-off journey from Gillingham (Kent) to Dartford), plus a three figure admin fee on top.

The complicating factor will be if inspection of the OP's ticket purchasing history (Trainline?) shows any previous occasion(s) when Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount was inappropriately claimed.

@olurufi. Can you possibly clarify on this latter point?

 

[olurufi]

Looks like @olurufi is dealing with Govia Thameslink.

Engaging positively with GTR will usually result in them being amenable to offering a so-called "out of court settlement" which, if that's what happens in the fullness of time, will likely cost the OP £12.10 (the unpaid undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare for a one-off journey from Gillingham (Kent) to Dartford), plus a three figure admin fee on top.

The complicating factor will be if inspection of the OP's ticket purchasing history (Trainline?) shows any previous occasion(s) when Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount was inappropriately claimed.

@olurufi. Can you possibly clarify on this latter point?

Thanks for the InSite. I have not previously used the Jobcentre Plus discount card, that was my first time and this was because I didn't know it wasn't meant for me.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for posting the paperwork.

GTR will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will ise quite threatening language and say they have received a report and are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter.

You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and GTR are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[olurufi]

Thanks for posting the paperwork.

GTR will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will ise quite threatening language and say they have received a report and are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter.

You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and GTR are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thanks alot. I will

 

[olurufi]

Hi everyone,
I have not received any letter from them since 7th of August that the incident happened. Should I assume that they have forgiven me or what? Your opinion is highly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[John R]

Hi everyone,
I have not received any letter from them since 7th of August that the incident happened. Should I assume that they have forgiven me or what? Your opinion is highly appreciated.

Thanks

No, they have up to 6 months to contact you, so it’s far too early to get your hopes up.

 

[olurufi]

No, they have up to 6 months to contact you, so it’s far too early to get your hopes up.

Thanks for the info but what if I relocate to another address won't that be an issue???

 

[John R]

Thanks for the info but what if I relocate to another address won't that be an issue???

Yes. If you relocate you should use the Royal Mail’s redirection service (you are advised to anyway, regardless of this issue) to ensure you get any important post.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for the info but what if I relocate to another address won't that be an issue???

It is vital you receive and respond to anything they send you or otherwise their is a real risk of you getting prosecuted without you knowing it (and the 1st time you find out can be when court bailiffs eventually track you down which they seem good at doing going by other threads on here where this has happened) and the cost and time taken to sort that out will massively outweigh the cost of you taking steps to ensure you get any post they send you.

 

[olurufi]

Hello

I got a letter today from Thameslink. They asked me to be honest and tell them exact what happened that day. Please, I have attached a copy of the letter here your advise will go a long way. Thanks

This is what I have drafted as response to the letter as follows:

Dear Thameslink,

On August 7, 2024, I traveled from Gillingham to Dartford without a valid discounted ticket, despite not holding a discount card. When approached by a ticketing officer, I cooperated and provided my details.

I acknowledge my mistake and take full responsibility. I apologize for any financial loss caused and understand the importance of protecting integrity.

To resolve this matter amicably, I'm willing to:

1. Pay the original fare of £12.
2. Cover investigation costs, including administrative fees.

I'm committed to making things right and avoiding court involvement.

Sincerely,
Name

Or

Dear Thameslink Customer Relations,

Re: Incident on August 7, 2024 - Traveling Without Valid Discounted Ticket

I am writing to acknowledge and apologize for traveling from Gillingham to Dartford on August 7, 2024, without a valid discounted ticket, despite not holding a discount card. When questioned by a ticketing officer, I cooperated fully and provided my details.

I understand that my actions were unacceptable and take full responsibility. I realize that my behavior may have caused financial loss to Thameslink and compromised the integrity of the ticketing system.

I want to assure you that I have learned a valuable lesson from this experience. I recognize the importance of honesty, integrity, and compliance with rules and regulations, especially in public transportation.

To make amends, I am willing to:

1. Pay the original fare of £12.
2. Cover all investigation costs, including administrative fees.
3. Cooperate fully with any further inquiries or procedures.

I am committed to resolving this matter amicably and avoiding court involvement. I appreciate your understanding and look forward to a fair resolution.

Sincerely,
[Your Names]

 

[30907]

To resolve this matter amicably, I'm willing to:

1. Pay the original fare of £12.
2. Cover investigation costs, including administrative fees.

I'm committed to making things right and avoiding court involvement.]

It's a nuance, perhaps, but that reads as though you are making a generous offer, whereas you are clearly the one in the wrong.

You need to ask them if they would consider offering to settle on that basis.

You may be able to word it so as to leave the question open as to how much you owe them (though you have said this was your first time).

The good news is that, as previously stated, GTR will usually settle.

 

[John R]

It's a nuance, perhaps, but that reads as though you are making a generous offer, whereas you are clearly the one in the wrong.

You need to ask them if they would consider offering to settle on that basis.

You may be able to word it so as to leave the question open as to how much you owe them (though you have said this was your first time).

The good news is that, as previously stated, GTR will usually settle.

Agree totally.

The letter sounds as though you have the upper hand here, whereas you don’t.

You need to ask them very nicely “I would be most grateful if you would consider…” etc, not say what you are willing to pay. What you are willing to pay is irrelevant - they will decide what they want to offer you as a settlement.

 

[olurufi]

Thanks alot. I really appreciate your views. I will adjust it and repost.

Thanks

Please, is this much better?

I am writing to acknowledge and apologize for traveling from Gillingham to Dartford on August 7, 2024, without a valid discounted ticket, despite not holding a discount card. When questioned by a ticketing officer, I cooperated fully and provided my details.

I understand that my actions were unacceptable and take full responsibility. I realize that my behavior may have caused some financial loss to Thameslink and compromised the integrity of the ticketing system.
I want to assure you that I have learned a valuable lesson from this experience. I recognize the importance of honesty, integrity, and compliance with rules and regulations, especially in public transportation.

I would be most grateful if you would consider to offer me out of court settlement and cooperate with any further inquiries or procedures.
I appreciate your understanding and look forward to a fair resolution.

 

[John R]

A few changes below:-


I am writing to acknowledge your letter or x, reference xxxxx, and firstly apologise for traveling from Gillingham to Dartford on August 7, 2024, without a valid discounted ticket, despite not holding a discount card. When questioned by a ticketing officer, I cooperated fully and provided my details.

I understand that my actions were unacceptable and take full responsibility. I realise that my behaviour will have caused some financial loss to Thameslink, and is unacceptable. and compromised the integrity of the ticketing system.
I want to assure you that I have learned a valuable lesson from this experience. I now recognize the importance of honesty, integrity, and compliance with rules and regulations, especially in public transportation, and will ensure I do so in future.

I would be most grateful if you would consider to offer me out of court settlement and I undertake to cooperate with any further inquiries or procedures.
I appreciate your understanding and look forward to a fair resolution. and look forward to hearing from you.

 

[olurufi]

Thanks

 

[MotCO]

Some further changes below


Dear Sirs,

I am writing to acknowledge your letter of x, reference xxxxx, and firstly apologise for traveling from Gillingham to Dartford on August 7, 2024, without a valid discounted ticket, despite not holding a discount card. When questioned by a ticketing officer, I cooperated fully and provided my details.

I understand that my actions were unacceptable and take full responsibility. I realise that my behaviour will have caused some financial loss to Thameslink, and is unacceptable. and compromised the integrity of the ticketing system.
I want to assure you that I have learned a valuable lesson from this experience. I now recognize the importance of honesty, integrity, and compliance with rules and regulations, especially in public transportation, and will ensure I do so in future.

I would be most grateful if you would consider to offer me out of court settlement and I undertake to cooperate with any further inquiries or procedures.
I appreciate your understanding and look forward to a fair resolution. and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,



You are obviously looking at ways of trying to reduce the cost of rail travel, and there are some legal ways of doing this.

1. Using Traveline usually charges you a commission for buying the ticket. Buying direct from Train Operating Companies, such as GTR, does not include any commission. Alternatively, this Forum has its own ticketing arrangements, again without commission, with the added bonus if there is a legitimate 'split ticket' it can save you money (and a small part o that saving is passed ack to this orum to hrlpcover some of its running costs.) Details are at the top of this page.

2. There are a range of Railcards available. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/railcards/ If one seems suitable, please read the conditions; if you have any questions, please come back to this forum. Please be aware that there are some restrictions on travelling in the morning rushhour.

 

[Class15]

1. Using Traveline usually charges you a commission for buying the ticket. Buying direct from Train Operating Companies, such as GTR, does not include any commission. Alternatively, this Forum has its own ticketing arrangements, again without commission, with the added bonus if there is a legitimate 'split ticket' it can save you money (and a small part o that saving is passed ack to this orum to hrlpcover some of its running costs.) Details are at the top of this page.

Does Trainpal not also do this?

 

[MotCO]

Does Trainpal not also do this?

Do what? Charge commission, or offer splits? My list of suggested retailers was not exhaustive, just illustratory.

 

[olurufi]

Hello,

I have been offered an out of court settlement of £87.10 which includes the outstanding fare due.

Thanks for all the guidance.

 

[MotCO]

That's a very good result. Thanks for letting us know.

Please ensure that you always buy the correct ticket in future. If you have any questions about tickets, please head over to the Fares Advice and Policy sub forum.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I have been offered an out of court settlement of £87.10 which includes the outstanding fare due.

@olurufi. Thanks for the update. Think that works out as £12.10 for the fare, plus an £75.00 admin fee added on.

 

[olurufi]

Thanks