notice of intention to prosecute

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bex91

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Hi

I need some advice. i was recently stopped for not having a first class ticket. i had a standard ticket but i was in the first class section. I was unable to pay the fine on the spot and the ticket inspector said that i would pay around £40 if sent to my house. i gave them a false name but my real address, i did want to pay it but i didnt want it go to my house in my name. three weeks later I have now been issued with a notice of intent to prosecute, however it is in the false name i have given. im unsure if i should ignore this as it is technically not addressed to me and the ticket inspector called up to verify the person lives there or if i should tell them the truth?

could i please have some advice thanks.
 
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DaveNewcastle

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It probably doesn't matter now, but I wonder if you deliberately travelled in First without the appropriate ticket and before doing so, had already asked what the consequences would be.
What does matter, is if you deliberately supplied a false name and before doing so, had already asked what the consequences would be. (It's a serious Offence).

Asking about the consequences after making your decisions seems a little odd to me.

If you supplied a false name in full knowledge of the consequences, then any advice should be informed by what you are attempting to achieve by supplying that name. You haven't told us what that intention is.

If you supplied a false name for no particular reason and it just popped into your head unexpectedly, then I think a medical report may assist in resolving the situation.

If you supplied a false name and the correct address deliberately, then we have to assume that you wanted a letter claiming the cost and/or considering prosecution to be sent to the name and address that you supplied. And as this is exactly what has happened, you seem to have achieved your intention.

. . . . . should tell them the truth?
Why not? In what circumstances would anyone deliberately lie? And in which of those circumstances would you expect assistance from others?

Or to be quite blunt, what assistance are you looking for and what are you trying to achieve?
 

323235

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If you don't give them the correct name then I think it will eventually catch up with you given you live at the address and the punishment will be worse, so you may as well call them and tell them now.

You haven't really achieved anything by doing this from what I can see only dig yourself into a potentially deeper hole.
 

scotsman

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Wee hint to the OP: Railway management regularly check this forum - do you really want your admission of supplying a false name (Offence #1) in a presumed attempt to pervert the course of justice (Offence #2) when being reported for prosecution for failing to hold a valid ticket (Offence #3).
 

ANorthernGuard

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Hi

I need some advice. i was recently stopped for not having a first class ticket. i had a standard ticket but i was in the first class section. I was unable to pay the fine on the spot and the ticket inspector said that i would pay around £40 if sent to my house. i gave them a false name but my real address, i did want to pay it but i didnt want it go to my house in my name. three weeks later I have now been issued with a notice of intent to prosecute, however it is in the false name i have given. im unsure if i should ignore this as it is technically not addressed to me and the ticket inspector called up to verify the person lives there or if i should tell them the truth?

could i please have some advice thanks.

As you have admitted you knew what you were doing may I suggest you take my advice


Choose suitable clothing for your court date.

No sympathy
 

Failed Unit

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Is it just me or are we getting more "intentions to prosecute?" is this just more people on the forum asking for help or a harder line by the TOCs
 

yorkie

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bex91 - Welcome to the forum. You were not asked to pay a fine on the spot, but asked to pay a fare. Only a Court can issue a fine, and it'd be a lot more than £40. Had you paid the fare when requested, the matter would now be over. However failure to pay a fare when requested can mean the matter is escalated to prosecution in cases like this. As you gave a false name, it is now a potentially very serious matter.

You may be able to settle out of court, if it's a first offence, but if the Company's evidence is good (which we don't know) the offer may have to be substantial for them to settle. You could try phoning them and/or writing to them.

If you do lose in court, you'd be required to pay the original fare due, plus costs, plus a fine imposed by the Court, and you would also get a criminal record that would appear on any future CRB check.

You are advised to seek legal advice (which we cannot provide).
Is it just me or are we getting more "intentions to prosecute?" is this just more people on the forum asking for help or a harder line by the TOCs
A the risk of going off-topic, this forum is increasing in size and popularity all the time, and as more topics of this nature crop up, we get further up in the rankings. We've only had 10 days this year that less than 1,000 members have logged on, but most people who visit this site are non-members. I'm sure there are many hundreds who find us when looking for advice on prosecutions, but only a small proportion of them post. Also, people get given recommendations to come here for advice from other places e.g. MoneySavingExpert.
 

Stigy

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You could risk it, as obviously it's not addressed to you, however, these things do have a way of biting you, so beware! If you are honest now, you'll more than likely be prosecuted for Fare Evasion on two counts (supplying the false name, and intending to avoid payment....by default really). If you stick to your guns and say it wasn't you, and you are subsequently found out, that could be construed as attempting to pervert the course of justice....Which is a very serious offence.

To be honest, unless BTP and the CPS are prosecuting, the latter is very unlikely, whatever the case, and you'll probably be prosecuted for the Fare Evasion offences whether you admit it was you, or you don't and you're found out. As Yorkie said, if it's a first offence, you may be lucky if you come clean now, and be allowed to settle the matter administratively, however, you did lie to the TOC, and they may have a bee in their bonnet about this, so don't hold your breath!
 

ReverendFozz

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As you have admitted you knew what you were doing may I suggest you take my advice


Choose suitable clothing for your court date.

No sympathy

I second that, got no sympathy...

But 'fess up now before it is to late, be grown up about it, accept the punishment dished out and let it be a lesson learnt

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
 

Monty

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I second that, got no sympathy...

But 'fess up now before it is to late, be grown up about it, accept the punishment dished out and let it be a lesson learnt

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

At the risk of sounding like a broken record I whole heartedly agree, My advice to you is inform them of your real name and pray (if you that way inclinded) that the company involved will settle out of court. If they won't, I would seriously consider seeking legal advice.

Out of curiosity where were you travelling from and to, and with which train operating company did you travel with?
 

Merseyrail

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Is it just me or are we getting more "intentions to prosecute?" is this just more people on the forum asking for help or a harder line by the TOCs

Over the past few months I've noticed a serious increase of Northern Rail revenue inspectors not just at Liverpool Lime Street but also at Huyton and Wavertree in my area. In the past it was just once every few months but lately it seems to be a couple of times a week. They've cottoned on it's a bit of a cash cow that old paying your fare lark.
 

yorkie

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Out of curiosity where were you travelling from and to, and with which train operating company did you travel with?
I'm not sure we'll ever get the answers to those questions (in fact it may be incriminating if the OP does answer), but I'd be 90% sure the TOC is FCC.;)
 

scotsman

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I'm not sure we'll ever get the answers to those questions (in fact it may be incriminating if the OP does answer), but I'd be 90% sure the TOC is FCC.;)

The irony of this is that it's irrelevant in this case, despite the hardline approach of FCC, the OP went and presented them with a near-airtight prosecution.
 

jon0844

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Irrespective of the original offence, if you give a false name then there's proven intent right there - to evade any penalty or prosecution. Therefore I'm in the 'no sympathy' camp too.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Could get away with it?
Or going from the frying pan into the fire?
I take it the letter has been opened!

If the Court found out you could be expecting the charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice to appear on the sheet. That would be very serious.
 

142094

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Over the past few months I've noticed a serious increase of Northern Rail revenue inspectors not just at Liverpool Lime Street but also at Huyton and Wavertree in my area. In the past it was just once every few months but lately it seems to be a couple of times a week. They've cottoned on it's a bit of a cash cow that old paying your fare lark.

Northern are currently in the process of doing more spot checks at random stations, as well as employing more RPI staff, so it should be increasingly common in the next few months.
 

Stigy

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get more serious ? bex91 giving a false name will still have book chucked at them anyway... its make or break

If they have CCTV on bex91 which I believe is deleted after 28 days will be very unlikely IMO

Then its a case of showing court the evidence and proving it was Bex91 and not Mr X whos gave an incoorect address it will be 50/50 the case will be closed as its not worth the time and money etc
Indeed, but Magistrates would be more inclined to take the "attempting to pervert the course of justice" far more seriously as they understand this to be the more serious offence, which of course it is. The maximum penalties for the fare evasion, is 3-months inside, and £1,000 (per offence). The maximum for Attempting to pervert the course of justice is far more severe (several years inside), and much more likely to result in prison.
 
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michael769

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get more serious ? bex91 giving a false name will still have book chucked at them anyway... its make or break

I can only conclude you do not understand the possible consequences of being convicted on Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice!

Your advice could very easily turn a fine for making an ill judged mistake, into a prison sentence for a deliberate and sustained conspiracy.

I strongly advise you not to advise other forum members to commit very serious criminal offences!
 

142094

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If Northern are planning to do a sting operation, they'll:

a) Be planning it well in advance

b) Will be very used to stopping people who later turn out to have given false details.

Quite a simple job for Northern to take a copy of the CCTV tape for that station back to Bradford for them to work on a prosecution.
 

jon0844

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If the Court found out you could be expecting the charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice to appear on the sheet. That would be very serious.

How hard would it be for the TOC to visit the address and identify the offender? Chances are the RPI made a description of the person in his notebook, or else there's CCTV. If so, I'd not want to consider the punishment for such an offence. It's the sort of offence where you could wind up inside.

What's more, hasn't the OP considered what happens if he's spotted using the train again in the future? Or is it worth never travelling by train ever again to simply avoid getting done (on the basis that they just give up)?
 

ralphchadkirk

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How hard would it be for the TOC to visit the site and identify the offender? Chances are the RPI made a description of the person in his notebook. If so, I'd not want to consider the punishment for such an offence. It's the sort of offence where you could wind up inside.

Exactly. The OP would be found out eventually - I can't quite believe that someone was seriously suggesting continuing the lie which quite possibly could have ended up in prison as well as being a very serious offence to appear on a CRB.


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ReverendFozz

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One thing I find daft is if your going to give a false name, why would you give your real house address, that does not sense, if I gave someone a false name I would go on to say where I really lived.

After all is said and done fare evasion of any kind is bad enough but to pervert the court of justice is serious, like I have said the OP needs to confess to the TOC, it probably wont stay out of court now, but as a punishment the person should be given a fine for evasion and a conditional discharge for lying and giving a stern telling off by the Magistrates...

I would hope that the person is remorseful, and will learn an expensive lesson that probably ends with a criminal conviction
 

34D

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if he's spotted using the train again in the future?

Surely bex91 would be a 21 year old lady? Or do we think he's actually a bloke in his 50s who thought hed get a better response if called bex91? We don't know.

Purely for the purposes of dissuading the OP to be silly, here is a link to another thread (the person there is a false name person) http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1137730

This is (was) a minor penalty fare matter, not a murder you were trying to get away with. Perspective please!
 

Deerfold

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This is (was) a minor penalty fare matter, not a murder you were trying to get away with. Perspective please!

I think you may be underestimating the seriousness of a perverting the course of justice charged - it's not unusual for penalties for that to be far higher than those for the original charge.

Indeed it was a minor penalty fare matter, but now it has the potential to be much more serious (not as serious as murder, no, but much more).
 
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You could say something like this - you felt so embarrassed when the inspector caught you doing something so stupid - using !st Class - you panicked, not wanting your parents/ spouse to find out, and for some stupid reason gave another name. But fully intended to pay the fare, and gave your address, and to post the money owed to the railway. Many apologies etc
You wish to settle the amount owing and compensation for time and trouble caused.
Keep it brief, excuses. Otherwise 100% the truth.
Suggest you write - you have a record of what you said, and less likely to make any further mistakes. All phone calls are recorded.
 
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34D

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I think you may be underestimating the seriousness of a perverting the course of justice charged - it's not unusual for penalties for that to be far higher than those for the original charge.

Indeed it was a minor penalty fare matter, but now it has the potential to be much more serious (not as serious as murder, no, but much more).

Will you please go back and re-read my message (of which you only quoted part) and then apologise for your reading it wrongly.
 
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