Nottingham 'Bus War'

[SCH117X]

Always amazed when councils remove funding and the operator carries on the service commercially; its as if someone previously has not done their sums right and are happy to fork out ratepayers monies for no reason.

 

[Andyh82]

E200s seem very likely but both are heavyweight routes and could still end up with something more like Citaros.

What length E200s are Trent Barton's existing ones?

Is there are longer length version that they could buy for the i4/Indigo.

Reducing the frequency from 8 buses to 6 on the i4 and then moving to slightly smaller buses would seem odd. I also can't see Trent Barton buying double decks, although most of the negatives they used to quote about no seats downstairs, poor intimidating layouts upstairs etc wouldn't apply thesedays.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Always amazed when councils remove funding and the operator carries on the service commercially; its as if someone previously has not done their sums right and are happy to fork out ratepayers monies for no reason.

It depends. In some instances, services (usually on a Sunday) have perhaps developed so whilst they may have been uncommercial, they may now be marginal and the operator thinks it’s worthwhile operating.

There are also certain instances where operators take a holistic view and maintain certain journeys to ensure that the customer base is protected even though they will lose a bit.

Then there are the deeply uneconomic ones. They just disappear.

Whether certain services are retained for political expediency, I couldn’t possibly comment....

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Hucknall Citylink withdrawn after 18th May 2018:
https://www.facebook.com/LittlesTravel/photos/rpp.388424817865577/1938774906163886/?type=3&theater

 

[philthetube]

The Following Proposals are being discussed by Derbyshire County Council on Thursday 5th April 2018:
More than a dozen Derbyshire bus routes could have journeys cut back after the county council said it could no longer afford to subsidise them. The authority has put forward plans to end its support for 26 services across Derbyshire. Of these, 13 would be continued by private companies but 13 would have their services reduced due to not being “commercially viable”. The majority of the bus services not being picked up by a private company relate to early morning, evening, Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday journeys.

The 13 routes being cut would be: 15A/16A – Chesterfield to Crystal Peaks via Barlow, Apperknowle and Marsh Lane – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 55A – Chesterfield to Alfreton via Wingerworth – loss of evening bus service. 63A – Matlock to Clay Cross via Kelstedge – loss of 5.50pm journey, bringing last departure from Matlock to 3.45pm. 66/66A – Chesterfield to Buxton via Baslow and Tideswell – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 110 – Matlock to Ashbourne via Kniveton – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 140 – Matlock to Alfreton via Crich – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 173 – Castleton to Bakewell – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 212 – Bonsall to Derby via Crich – loss of 9.05am from Bonsall and 1.45 from Derby on alternate Thursdays. 217 – Matlock to Chatsworth via Rowsley – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 442 – Ashbourne to Fairfield Estate via Hartington and Buxton – loss of Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday service. 449 – Ilam to Bakwell – loss of 9.15am from Ilam and 1.35pm from Bakewell on alternate Mondays. Swift – Derby to Mayfield via Brailsford and Ashbourne – loss of 6.08am journey from Derby Monday to Saturday, first journey becomes 7.45am from Derby. Transpeak – Manchester to Derby via Buxton, Bakewell and Matlock – loss of last journey in both directions, last journey from Manchester becomes 4.10pm and from 5.50 from Derby; the 7.50pm will go as far as Matlock.

The 13 routes being retained but totally privatised would be: Rainbow One – Alfreton to Nottingham via Somercotes and Eastwood – Monday to Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday Mondays. 6.1 – Bakewell to Derby Via Matlock – Monday to Friday 06.30a.m. journey between Bakewell and Matlock. 6.3 – Derby to Ripley via Belper and Heage – between Heage and Ripley on Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays. 71 Belper to Derby via Holbrook – last journey in both directions. My 15 – Ilkeston to Sawley – Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays. 39 – Grangewood to Holme Hall via Chesterfield – alternate evening services Monday to Saturday, Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays. 61 – Glossop to Buxton via New Mills – Monday to Friday 1pm from Buxton and 2pm from Glossop, and Saturdays from Buxton from 1pm, 3pm and 5.20pm, and 2pm and 4pm from Glossop also all Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays. 170 – Bakewell to Chesterfield via Chatsworth House – Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays. 199 – Buxton to Manchester Airport via Stockport – all Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday journeys between Buxton and New Mills/Newtown, Swift – Derby to Mayfield via Brailsford and Ashbourne – all journeys from 7.30pm from Derby and 6.22pm from Mayfield onwards, Monday to Wednesday, Transpeak – Manchester to Derby via Buxton, Bakewell and Matlock – all Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday journeys except 8.15pm journey from Buxton and 9.50 journey from Derby,

Read more at: https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/derbyshire-bus-services-may-go-in-bid-to-save-1m-1-9087997

I am confused about how you propose that 13 routes run commercially, it is like proposing they all put on five minute services, means nothing.

 

[SCH117X]

Presumably they have had talks with the operators.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Further to my Derbyshire Changes posting. Derbyshire County Councils online timetables are beginning to show changes to some of the above routes from late April or late May. So far affecting the 63, 212 & 218.

 

[Domh245]

Noticed a couple of the new dedicated Route 36 Biogas buses in service today, as well as one of the now released E400s working a Route 35 service.

 

[nottinghamcity]

Yes I spotted one on the 36 this morning, and yesterday evening. Not route branded.

 

[Domh245]

Yes I spotted one on the 36 this morning, and yesterday evening. Not route branded.

There's been plenty of non branded ones on the 36 for a while - they've even let the non branded biogases onto the 34 for all of us students to wreck! But these were definitely orange. One even the side adverts on it (but not the one I managed to photograph)

 

[valentaman]

Centrebus cutting more routes RF1 Corby - Melton
and melton town services aswell

http://www.rutlandradio.co.uk/news/local-news/centrebus-to-pull-out-of-rutland-flyer-contract/

 

[WillPS]

Centrebus cutting more routes RF1 Corby - Melton
and melton town services aswell

http://www.rutlandradio.co.uk/news/local-news/centrebus-to-pull-out-of-rutland-flyer-contract/

Does this service come anywhere near Nottingham?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Does this service come anywhere near Nottingham?

No but it was partly part of the 19 until the Centrebus redraw last Summer. It has been pointed out elsewhere that the Centrebus Network day ticket has disappeared off of the website & faretables. This would double the cost of a Nottingham - Oakham journey compared to a year ago when through fares existed.

 

[pjnathanail]

No but it was partly part of the 19 until the Centrebus redraw last Summer. It has been pointed out elsewhere that the Centrebus Network day ticket has disappeared off of the website & faretables. This would double the cost of a Nottingham - Oakham journey compared to a year ago when through fares existed.

I purchased such a ticket around a month ago (although I practically had to issue it to myself, the driver didn't know how his machine worked) on the 19 in Nottingham, so I would be surprised if it has been withdrawn since then - it is likely to be that it was forgotten when they introduced their new website. I might be wrong however.

 

[edwin_m]

There's been plenty of non branded ones on the 36 for a while - they've even let the non branded biogases onto the 34 for all of us students to wreck! But these were definitely orange. One even the side adverts on it (but not the one I managed to photograph)

Saw a couple of orange ones this morning with route branding, presumably for the 36 but I couldn't read them as I was driving.

 

[Mugby]

The latest round of service alterations are now on the Derbyshire CC site.

More cutbacks by Arriva in Derby:
Service 4, Allenton (the old Harvey Road service) reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20.
Service 8, Mackworth via Slack Lane, reduced from every 10 minutes to every 12.
Service F1 (Fast 1) to Alvaston via Pride park reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20.

I also notice that G&J Holmes have lost a lot of work, will they have much left?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I also notice that G&J Holmes have lost a lot of work, will they have much left?

I understand, from what I've read elsewhere, that they've abandoned ALL their routes from the 27th May to concentrate on coach work.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Marshalls 90A to be extended to Fernwood. Sunday buses to become 90A's and provide a Newark Local Service as well as through to Nottingham:

https://www.facebook.com/1020698798...069879844476/1876418042409642/?type=3&theater

 

[ACBest]

Marshalls 90A to be extended to Fernwood. Sunday buses to become 90A's and provide a Newark Local Service as well as through to Nottingham:

https://www.facebook.com/1020698798...069879844476/1876418042409642/?type=3&theater

At the same time, the main 90 will be shortened a little, terminating at Newark Bus Station rather than Northgate Railway Station.

 

[Dentonian]

Always amazed when councils remove funding and the operator carries on the service commercially; its as if someone previously has not done their sums right and are happy to fork out ratepayers monies for no reason.

Interesting take on it. It could be the other way round: the operator s either want the taxpayer to take the financial risk on a new service or temporarily on a service or journey not making enough profit

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Stagecoach Pronto getting Double Deckers. event in Nottingham Tuesday 19th June: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promo...d&hootPostID=bd0e58d486118f8dc4439479cfcc5e26

Pronto goes large!
Introducing another level of comfort between Nottingham, Mansfield and Chesterfield.
Join us for a slice of Italy!
We're launching brand new double-decker buses featuring e-leather seats, USB charging points and onboard Wi-Fi making an investment of over £3 million for pronto! The new buses have ultra-low emission engines and are fitted with new technology for a stress-free and luxurious trip.

So sit back and relax whilst you enjoy what pronto has to offer.


Why you'll love pronto...

free USB charging points on board
don't worry about preserving your battery life - charge it up to the next level!

free WiFi (terms apply)
keep connected on the move, check out the latest gossip on Facebook, Instagram or level up on your Snapchat score!

e-leather high back seats
travel in luxury and style with high-back e-leather seats

contactless payments
pay quickly, safely and securely and never worry about digging for change again! We also accept Apple Pay & Google Pay too!

enjoy a scenic view
once on board, go up a level and enjoy the Nottinghamshire countryside views you've been missing out on!





Download your pronto timetables
Mansfield to Nottingham every 10 minutes
Mansfield to Chesterfieldevery 30 minutes
Nottingham to Chesterfield via Mansfieldevery 30 minutes download pronto timetable



Join us for a slice of Italy!

We'll be launching our brand new double-decker buses on Tuesday 19 June 2018 in Nottingham Old Market Square between 11am and 3pm.
Pop along to enjoy our singing surprise and find out more about pronto.

Pssst.. did we mention there's FREE pizza?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Changes from 22nd July.
Trent Barton:
Rapid 1 - retimed & new evening journeys.
Rainbow 1 - retimed & Eastwood shorts extended to Ripley as pre Rapid 1 days.

Notts & Derby 11 withdrawn. Yourbus evening & Sunday tenders unchanged.
Notts & Derby 12 revised & reduced frequency.
High Peak Transpeak Buxton to Manchester section wthdrawn. Now via Burlow & revised timetable.

 

[43055]

Changes from 22nd July.
Trent Barton:
Rapid 1 - retimed & new evening journeys.
Rainbow 1 - retimed & Eastwood shorts extended to Ripley as pre Rapid 1 days.

Notts & Derby 11 withdrawn. Yourbus evening & Sunday tenders unchanged.
Notts & Derby 12 revised & reduced frequency.
High Peak Transpeak Buxton to Manchester section wthdrawn. Now via Burlow & revised timetable.

Interesting changes to the rainbow and rapid but surprising for the last three especially the 11 and TP being cut as I thought these would have made some sort of money as the last time I went on the 11 it was well loaded.

 

[Mugby]

It's rather sad that for the first time since perhaps the 1930s, Derby will no longer have a regular daily link with Manchester.

I believe there's one Nat Ex. journey per day but at a most inconvenient time.

 

[Robertj21a]

Interesting changes to the rainbow and rapid but surprising for the last three especially the 11 and TP being cut as I thought these would have made some sort of money as the last time I went on the 11 it was well loaded.

Transpeak simply doesn't earn enough on Buxton - Manchester section.

 

[ashworth]

Stagecoach Pronto getting Double Deckers. event in Nottingham Tuesday 19th June: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promo...d&hootPostID=bd0e58d486118f8dc4439479cfcc5e26

Is the Pronto route still going to be jointly operated with Trent Barton?
I haven’t seen anything to say otherwise on the Trent Barton website. Do Trent Barton actually operate many services on the Pronto route these days? If so are Trent Barton going to continue to run the old buses? With all this in the advert, anyone deciding to have a ride from Nottingham to Chesterfield would be very disappointed if an old Trent Barton Pronto single decker turned up. Obviously Stagecoach are now really claiming it as their route.

I wish Stagecoach could completely take it over and then allow their Day Explorer Ticket to be valid on the route. I’d even be happy with Trent Barton completely taking over and allowing their Mango cards and Zigzag to be valid. Better still keep it as it is and put an end to the silly situation where both companies won’t even accept their own day tickets!

 

[edwin_m]

I wish Stagecoach could completely take it over and then allow their Day Explorer Ticket to be valid on the route. I’d even be happy with Trent Barton completely taking over and allowing their Mango cards and Zigzag to be valid. Better still keep it as it is and put an end to the silly situation where both companies won’t even accept their own day tickets!

I take it this is another way the Competition Commission has managed to make buses less attractive for passengers...

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Is the Pronto route still going to be jointly operated with Trent Barton?
I haven’t seen anything to say otherwise on the Trent Barton website. Do Trent Barton actually operate many services on the Pronto route these days? If so are Trent Barton going to continue to run the old buses? With all this in the advert, anyone deciding to have a ride from Nottingham to Chesterfield would be very disappointed if an old Trent Barton Pronto single decker turned up. Obviously Stagecoach are now really claiming it as their route.!

I think vehicle requirements is 4 Trent to 10 Stagecoach. Interesting as well that the Stagecoach advert mentions pay by Contactless. So you turn up in Chesterfield for the 1405 - oh thats Trent - no contactless. So is the 1435. So its off to the cashpoint or wait an hour for Stagecoach. Why can't they do what happens with the X38 - it shows in the timetable who runs what and ticket availability- from the Trent site: "zigzag, zigzag duo and zigzag group cannot be used on Arriva's X38 buses, but can be used on trentbarton's X38's"

 

[Deerfold]

I take it this is another way the Competition Commission has managed to make buses less attractive for passengers...

I don't think so. There's many examples of routes where companies accept each other's tickets. There's certainly plenty where they at least accept their own (such as TB's X38 as mentioned above).

 

[ashworth]

I think vehicle requirements is 4 Trent to 10 Stagecoach. Interesting as well that the Stagecoach advert mentions pay by Contactless. So you turn up in Chesterfield for the 1405 - oh thats Trent - no contactless. So is the 1435. So its off to the cashpoint or wait an hour for Stagecoach. Why can't they do what happens with the X38 - it shows in the timetable who runs what and ticket availability- from the Trent site: "zigzag, zigzag duo and zigzag group cannot be used on Arriva's X38 buses, but can be used on trentbarton's X38's"

It’s surprising that on the Stagecoach Website their Pronto timetable gives no indication that some buses are operated by Trent Barton. Also on the Trent Barton website their timetables give no indication that some buses are operated by Stagecoach!

Just to clarify the very inconvenient fares situation as I interpret it:

Trent Barton do not allow their Mango Card to be used on this service or Zigzag even on their own buses.

Stagecoach Weekly Megarider Tickets are valid on Pronto which includes the regional Megarider Gold and local Chesterfield and Mansfield versions. Stagecoach Smartcard for these can be used on Stagecoach buses or a paper receipt or email is accepted on Trent Barton buses.
Neither Stagecoach or Trent Barton will accept Stagecoach Day Explorer tickets but interestingly Stagecoach local Dayriders in Chesterfield and Mansfield are accepted by both operators.

The fact that Mango/Zigzag and Day Explorer are not valid on any Pronto bus is the inconvenient and expensive problem for anyone wanting to do a day trip on more than one bus, even of the same operator. For example anyone wanting to travel from Newstead Abbey Gates to Stagecoach destinations involving a change of bus in Mansfield or Chesterield has to purchase two separate tickets. In the same way anyone wanting to travel to Trent Barton destinations changing bus at Nottingham or Mansfield also have to purchase two tickets or travel a very long way around using Trent Barton’s 141!

I know that all sounds a bit complicated but I hope that explains the situation which passengers living close to the Pronto route have had to endure for years.