Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Greenback]

Not sure what to make of this to be honest, I live in Sandiacre on the route of all the buses so I thought it was great. 6 Trent Barton buses per hour, 3 Bargain buses per hour and 3 Red Fours per hour. So 2x more service and 4x cheaper faires is surely a good thing but the Wellglade Group/Trent Barton just appear to have stopped all competition in it's tracks and then raised prices. I don't like to see business practises like that.

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/n...ted-route/article-2999663-detail/article.html

Welcome to the world of capitalism, cmpetition, monopolies and market forces!

 

[Flying Snail]

Not sure what to make of this to be honest, I live in Sandiacre on the route of all the buses so I thought it was great. 6 Trent Barton buses per hour, 3 Bargain buses per hour and 3 Red Fours per hour. So 2x more service and 4x cheaper faires is surely a good thing but the Wellglade Group/Trent Barton just appear to have stopped all competition in it's tracks and then raised prices. I don't like to see business practises like that.

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/n...ted-route/article-2999663-detail/article.html

It is not a good thing if the service levels are way above the passenger numbers and the fares way below break-even point because it is unsustainable. This appears to be what you had for a short while and the inevitable happened with one of the competing operators (the weaker one that couldn't sustain operating at a loss) pulled out. The route will now quickly revert to fares high enough to make a profit for the operators and a frequency that matches demand. This is simply the reality of a de-regulated bus market.

 

[nctx]

your bus are stepping up the battle a load of new Mercedes Citaro's on order for y36 , also looks lie they plan to take on City Transport on other routes . route 41 being looked at as well as 35.

 

[trentside]

I believe, however, that they are withdrawing the Y100 between Nottingham and Southwell after only a few months.

 

[Statto]

You may get cheaper fares during a bus war, but that's only short term, in the long run there will only be one winner, & the winner will put up fares & cut the routes &, or frequencies. I do like the London way of doing things, were TFL set the routes/times/frequencies/fares & passes.

It's ironic that Stagecoach sold there Darlington operations to Arriva a couple of years ago, & Stagecoach have been more prolific in using these type of tactics, they did the same thing to Lancaster & a few others.

 

[MCR247]

your bus are stepping up the battle a load of new Mercedes Citaro's on order for y36 , also looks lie they plan to take on City Transport on other routes . route 41 being looked at as well as 35.

Some of the citaros have arrived, I saw one on the Y36. The Y36 is a really success so good on them. Premiere on this other hand.. ugh

 

[trentside]

I believe that NCT are starting to take the 'threat' posed by Yourbus quite seriously. Their recent order for 24x Optare Solo SRs included the quote that the buses would be used to provide "a more frequent service on competitive routes".

http://www.optare.com/pr_02_03_11.htm

 

[nctx]

as far as im aware the plan was for the new solo's to go on route 70 yellow line, then the extra to go on routes to on green line routes.

The price of used double decker low floors is so low right know, I think some of the Trident 2's will have to say a few more year's.

Ensign are selling ex Metoline Ta's 1999 MODELS that are converted to single doors for £25 000.
A trident used to be worth £40 000 all day long.

As for Optare Excel 2's , I think the market for them has crashed ,there going for Leyland Lynx money.

Theres 20 new Scania double deckers coming for go 2 routes.

I think this will be the last of the current design , as thats been in production since 2003 for nct.

There could be a order for 20 plus ADL 400 hybrids if ADL gets its pricing right, one of the trent bridge depot lads was told that ADL are willing to sell buses at cost to get orders right know , as its only london buying them.

And Wrightbus are building the new Routemaster , thats going to First Westbourne for testing.

 

[Yew]

Some nice pronto busses on the Nottingham mansfield route, Leather seats, cheaper fares than the train, and somtimes faster.

Compared to getting an Old 156, either not really dingy, or slightly refurbished, Or the slight chance of one of the EMT 168's that are just about as nice as the busses.

Looks like EMT missed a trick, and pronto will win all the time unless people are using the train. (maybe a stop at nottingham station to totally beat the robin hood line? that would get emt thinking about refurbishment and price drops

 

[anthony263]

Noticed that the price for Optare excels is cheap, maybe that why SWT (Neath) have bought at least 4 of them

 

[trentside]

I've noticed that many independent operators who bought Excels to move towards low-floor operation disposed of them quite rapidly. Although the Optare Excel 2 is said to be more reliable, I'm sure it's reputation is tainted by its more problematic sibling.

 

[ivanhoe]

After a period of sensible Bus Operations, Nottingham is getting the worse of Bus Wars which will only drive passengers away. Take Loughborough to Nottingham. Arriva decided that they could not make Coalville to Nottingham via Loughborough. In comes Premier Travel with X9 and 6 months later Kinchbus( part of the Trent Barton group) decide to run spoiler services. If the route was that profitable, why did Arriva throw the towel in? They would have had good cash flows from Coalville to Nottingham.

Wellglade, the Bus Industry favourite acts just like Stagecoach, First et al. Crikey they make Arriva look respectable!

 

[Anon Mouse]

During Darlingtons Bus War, Stagecoach ran their buses competing with Darlington Town Council free of charge. DTC ended up having no passengers on for the obvious reasons, the big Stagecoach Bully Boys won.......

 

[starrymarkb]

After a period of sensible Bus Operations, Nottingham is getting the worse of Bus Wars which will only drive passengers away. Take Loughborough to Nottingham. Arriva decided that they could not make Coalville to Nottingham via Loughborough. In comes Premier Travel with X9 and 6 months later Kinchbus( part of the Trent Barton group) decide to run spoiler services. If the route was that profitable, why did Arriva throw the towel in? They would have had good cash flows from Coalville to Nottingham.

Wellglade, the Bus Industry favourite acts just like Stagecoach, First et al. Crikey they make Arriva look respectable!

It's retalliation for Premiere trying to duplicate Trent Barton routes elsewhere (running a few mins ahead). Something to bear in mind is that Alex Hornby became MD of Trent from Bluestar, who operated similar spoiler services to Black Velvet

Arriva are doing the same in Leicester to First (retiming their 14 to be 5 mins before every First 14)

 

[nctx]

I see that stage 2 of the Net ( Nottingham Tram). has the go ahead.

 

[MCR247]

After a period of sensible Bus Operations, Nottingham is getting the worse of Bus Wars which will only drive passengers away. Take Loughborough to Nottingham. Arriva decided that they could not make Coalville to Nottingham via Loughborough. In comes Premier Travel with X9 and 6 months later Kinchbus( part of the Trent Barton group) decide to run spoiler services. If the route was that profitable, why did Arriva throw the towel in? They would have had good cash flows from Coalville to Nottingham.

Wellglade, the Bus Industry favourite acts just like Stagecoach, First et al. Crikey they make Arriva look respectable!

The bus wars are getting quite annoying. I mean Friar Lane is now just a joke.

IMO Premiere are a crap operator, and I detest them. Yourbus are smarter, although the Y100 was not succesful, although I don't know why as the Pathfinder is absolutely atrocious. It actually lets NCT down IMO. When you see two buses on the same route behind each other, it is fine when they run every <10 minutes, but how can you have 2 buses together with a 20 minute frequencey? Then you have those Versas, the biggest mistake NCT have ever made. But then they have ordered more :roll:

 

[trentside]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one to feel that Premiere are a joke. Their apparent desire to duplicate most of the TrentBarton network is getting very tiresome. I haven't been down to Friar Lane for awhile, but I'm guessing it must be pretty bad down there these days.

Out of the journeys I've made with Premiere, I'd say I've had cause for complaint on most of them. I've only actually followed this through on two occasions. Once, when they decided to stop running a section of a route with no notice (quickly re-instated, I hasten to add!) and was given conflicting information on the phone, then by a driver of the route in question. The second occasion was repeated late running (by upwards of 15 minutes) to be on the receiving end of a 10 minute rant about roadworks on another service entirely...

 

[MCR247]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one to feel that Premiere are a joke. Their apparent desire to duplicate most of the TrentBarton network is getting very tiresome. I haven't been down to Friar Lane for awhile, but I'm guessing it must be pretty bad down there these days.

I am glad to hear the same thing

Friar Lane is just a joke. Before it was fine, but now it is shocking. For example the Skylink has always waited in town for about 20-25 minutes between services, but now it has to go off somewhere because of the congestion, not good for pax

 

[nctx]

From a fleet point of view there is nothing wrong with premiere

they have Enviro 200's , Wright bodied Man's and Scania 3 axles.
plus there Solo's are the same age as NCT.

if u buy there passes they are good value.
I think they need more inspectors to get them running on time etc.
see the website

www.premierebuses.co.uk

 

[MCR247]

Premiere solos are s***. End of. Age does not come into it. You can have a poorly maintained bus, or a well maintained bus. You can guess what I think Premieres are...

And the omnillinks are up for sale I think by the council....

 

[nctx]

Are Bellamy Coaches/ Buses still going, not been upto bilbrough for years.

I saw they had a court case last year.

 

[MCR247]

Part of Silverdale now

 

[trentside]

From a fleet point of view there is nothing wrong with premiere

they have Enviro 200's , Wright bodied Man's and Scania 3 axles.
plus there Solo's are the same age as NCT.

if u buy there passes they are good value.
I think they need more inspectors to get them running on time etc.
see the website

They certainly seem to have some fleet presentation issues, the Solos in particular look quite poor. Of course, a number of them are former Nottingham City Transport vehicles - mainly used on routes around Bingham.

As for the inspectors, I was travelling on one of the contract routes once which had onboard, myself, the driver, two inspectors, a route learning driver and the drivers wife. Staff definately out-numbering passengers on the run, and it was still running about 15 minutes late. The inspectors bailed out in a small village to wait for the bus in the opposite direction, also running very late...

 

[ChrisCooper]

Got the Premiere X9 up to Nottingham a few weeks ago, to get one of the tri-axles before they are sold (done them with NCT on P&R, but not since Premiere got them). Nice run, very quick, good bus, on time. Coming back though, bus didn't arrive until a good 5mins after it was due to depart, then was later by the time it loaded up. Enviro 300 looked and sounded awful, and was walking pace up Bunny Hill (slowest I've ever done it, and that's with all the old buses on trips out from the Heritage Centre). They remind me a lot of Centrebus in Leicester, expanding too rapidly, poor buses (regardless of age), lack of investment, yet trying to go in against the big boys. Centrebus at least has the advantage that their main rival is First, who are useless, unlike Premiere who are up against Trent Barton mostly.

 

[nctx]

I was outside Victoria Centre today and it looks like Premiere know have the Mercedes Citaro demo that was at Yourbus a couple of months ago , it was going to Bingham must have been a red 1 , anyone else seen it?

Also NCT have staff showing people what stops to use after the changes.
More 34,35,36 and 37 running to kill off yourbus 36.

Plus Students only pay £1 on Nct , copying Yourbus lead
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/ref2010/localbus/pdf/nct_excised.pdf

 

[bb21]

It's retalliation for Premiere trying to duplicate Trent Barton routes elsewhere (running a few mins ahead).

From the messages left on the linked site Premiere do seem to have plugged a hole though in a small market. Like someone else has mentioned, a few things I do however enjoy are the presentation and comfort of their buses, plus the friendliness of the drivers, which is one of the most valuable assets to possess these days. And if my experience of NCT from the last time I used their buses was anything to go by, I will not use them again until they change their gawd-awful seats.

Something to bear in mind is that Alex Hornby became MD of Trent from Bluestar, who operated similar spoiler services to Black Velvet

Don't get me started on Alex Hornby. Absolutely detest that guy. When I heard him joining Trentbarton I actually cringed. Then again it seems that Go Ahead South Coast's operation is a bit of a joke altogether. The way Wilts & Dorset's operation have shrunk in the last few years is in stark contrast to Transdev-owned (up until recently) Yellowbuses's expansion.

Arriva are doing the same in Leicester to First (retiming their 14 to be 5 mins before every First 14)

That's because First are absolutely useless. Arriva's 14 (20-minutely) used to be timed half-way between First's 14 (also 20-minutely), but that means coinciding with First's 14A (20-minutely). So the current timing is perfect for someone living along the route. Arriva has firmly held its territory in the last few years with a decent expansion whereas First retracted hugely, conceding a massive area in the bottom half of Leicester to Arriva, and now only owns sole route 88/88A to that part. First are also now far more expensive than Arriva in everything except long-hop single fares, when for however many years they were much cheaper.

Don't get me started on First Leicester Citybus or I could go on forever. All I can say is that they made their own bed.

They remind me a lot of Centrebus in Leicester, expanding too rapidly, poor buses (regardless of age), lack of investment, yet trying to go in against the big boys. Centrebus at least has the advantage that their main rival is First, who are useless, unlike Premiere who are up against Trent Barton mostly.

Centrebus's main backing came when they tied up with Arriva and withdrew from the competing 104 service, plus the fact that Leicester Citybus are clueless...

 

[nctx]

New Omnidekka's
5 for GO2 Red 43
9 for GO2 Purple 89
6 for GO2 Lilac 27
----
Current 43 fleet to be resprayed GO2 Spare and Network Spare
Current 27 fleet to be passed onto 24/25 service with those Tridents sold.
Current 89 fleet to be passed onto 56/59 service with those Tridents sold.
989 to join GO2 43 service

------

Information on the New Solo SR's will be made available soon

Also Alexander Dennis have a video on website saying nottingham is getting Hybrid buses.
http://www.alexander-dennis.com/europe-best-selling-hybrid-buses.php?s=47&subs=76
http://www.alexander-dennis.com/europe-best-selling-hybrid-buses.php?s=47&subs=76

 

[bb21]

I don't really understand the redesignation of 43 to a red route, as it bears very little resemblance to the 44. I don't understand why they couldn't have kept it lilac and just given it a new number.

 

[nctx]

the councils also buying more electric solo's

waste of time if you ask me.

 

[trentside]

The latest development;

PB1021628/84 - PREMIERE TRAVEL LTD, TRENT WHARF, MEADOW LANE, NOTTINGHAM, NG2 3HR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cropwell Bishop and Nottingham given service number RED 2 effective from 24-Jul-2011.

On their Facebook page they wouldn't confirm it when someone asked. Their words were that they were 'making some changes to their network'.