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Nottingham 'Bus War'

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ashworth

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Amberline terminus moved from Hucknall Library to Market Place with effect from the 21st November. 3 minutes is added to the outbound journey time to Westville. Wonder if it is to do with town centre pedestrianisation and new inner by-pass?

Yes, the new inner relief road is opening together with the new bus only link road. All bus services including Amberline, The Threes, 141 and Connect will be re routed via these new roads and the High Street between Watnall Road and the Market place is to be pedestrianised.

Is the Amberline going to be given even less time in Hucknall now. If so it will not allow for any late running on the inbound service which is occurring more and more at busy times coming into Hucknall down Watnall Road. There is also a very large new housing development being built between Hucknall and Watnall which will make the road even busier and could increase local passenger numbers into Hucknall on the Amberline.
 
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Yes, Layover reduced to 2 minutes at Hucknall.
New timetable is on Derbyshire County Councils Public Transport Pages.
 
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There was quite a bit about this on BBC Radio Nottingham this morning. From what I heard it sounds like Trent Barton are quite concerned about this proposed decision by Nottinghamshire County Council. There was also a feeling that if it happens it wouldn't be long before Derbyshire follow.

Could this be the end of the current high frequency off peak service in its current form? From what I have seen a large proportion of the passengers boarding the Red Arrow in Nottingham mid morning are older people travelling with concessionary passes. Can the current level of service be maintained without the concessionary fares. How will Trent Barton deal with this situation? Will they just cut the frequency if there are significantly less passengers or will it result in the service reverting back to ordinary buses rather than coaches?

And they are.

Free bus travel for pensioners on two local bus services are to be scrapped, with the savings used to pay for lollipop men and ladies.

As we reported in August, the city council was looking for £147,000 to protect the school crossing patrol service. They've found it - but pensioners may be left out of pocket.

Concessionary bus fares on the Red Arrow and X38 services will be scrapped under the plans, with pensioners having to pay a full adult fare.

The services go to Nottingham and Burton - and the city council says free travel to those places will still be available on other, slower routes.

Taken from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-derbyshire-37713358

It would be nice if they remembered that it doesn't just affect OAPs, but also those with disabled concessionary passes as well, who may be considerably younger.
 

Mugby

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Could the same thing be applied to The Comet? Large numbers of OAPs travel to Chesterfield on Thursdays but it could be said that alternative, slower services are available.
 

Pigalle

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ag51ruk

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The 38 does very well in Derby. It passes through the spot too where it picks up many of its city centre passengers, not at bus station.

In the past few years they have changed routes a few times and reduced frequencies. Interestingly though alrhough both 20 and 26 have seen the frequency gradually decrease from 10 to 12 to 15 min, the routes have remained unchanged.

Personally i cant see the 20 working with 2 operators as not enough custom. 26 potentially, perhaps more so if tweaked around Oakwood to serve a wider area that routes 22 and 24 cover.

I would have thought sinfins, 38 or alvastons 1 1a would be more profitable corridors. But thinking about it the 38 has good image with sapphire and a good frequency. And Arriva have good frequency on the 1 and also skylink running on that corridor.

The introduction on the new services also builds on their nerwork in that corner of the city as thst have y5 on nottingham rd corridor plus evening 11.

It will be interesting to see what happens next. Will arriva put extra buses on, or just carry on.

The Derby Telegraph is reporting refurbished buses are starting to be put onto both routes that will see competition from yesterday. There is a photograph of an Arriva bus in a new paint scheme. No mention of increased frequencies.

http://m.derbytelegraph.co.uk/bus-w...ses-in-derby/story-29829592-detail/story.html

The YourBus timetables are now up on the DCC website and during the week they will fit in between the existing 15 minute frequency (giving both routes a bus every 7/8 mins). On Sundays they will leave 7 minutes before the half hourly Arriva bus. The routes appear to be the same for both operators.
 
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winston270twm

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The Derby Telegraph is reporting refurbished buses are starting to be put onto both routes that will see competition from yesterday. There is a photograph of an Arriva bus in a new paint scheme. No mention of increased frequencies.

http://m.derbytelegraph.co.uk/bus-w...ses-in-derby/story-29829592-detail/story.html

The YourBus timetables are now up on the DCC website and during the week they will fit in between the existing 15 minute frequency (giving both routes a bus every 7/8 mins). On Sundays they will leave 7 minutes before the half hourly Arriva bus. The routes appear to be the same for both operators.

http://wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/3552.html

http://m.derbytelegraph.co.uk/rival...tes-in-derby/story-29826216-detail/story.html
 

ivanhoe

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And they are.



Taken from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-derbyshire-37713358

It would be nice if they remembered that it doesn't just affect OAPs, but also those with disabled concessionary passes as well, who may be considerably younger.

Very true. I cannot see how they could evaluate what savings could be made. Certainly, there would be less going to TB in respect of ENCTS but if the said passengers just go on different bus journeys instead, where's the saving?
 

Marcus Fryer

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Very true. I cannot see how they could evaluate what savings could be made. Certainly, there would be less going to TB in respect of ENCTS but if the said passengers just go on different bus journeys instead, where's the saving?
Is there a premium on the X38 over the fare on the Villager? That was the justification given by Nottingham for removing ENCT validity on the Red Arrow. That and that coaches are used.
The X38, of course, uses ordinary buses. It also carries more local passengers within both Derby and Burton compared to Red Arrow within Nottingham.
Presumably the validity of passes on journeys from Burton is decided by Staffordshire.
Will Trans Peak be the next target for ENCT validity erosion?
 

Deerfold

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Hopefully not, as there few/no alternative services along much of the route.

Most of the route has alternative services that are at least as frequent as the Transpeak. There is a gap of reasonable frequency services between Bakewell and Buxton. It would also be very inconvenient for anyone doing the whole route or a large chunk of it as the other routes do not connect well.

In the 90s I often used to get a TrentBarton day ticket to travel between Nottingham and Manchester or Stockport. I often used the 6x and 198/9 routes, most of which remain. The 199 route differs significantly from the TP, but the 190 is similar.
 

kevjs

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DSC_5112.JPG


The new park&ride link buses are now running on CentreLink - been pretty full the last few days.

If I've understood the timetable changes correctly the "CentreLink" busses cease in January, with the revised Queen's Drive P&R absorbing them?
 

kevjs

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Trent Barton have sent out a survey to customers in Cotgrave, looks like they want to remove the Friar Lane stop and run only from Broadmarsh to save time.
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/KV9GTFZ

Well that's hardly surprising is it - it's a rather round about route at present! If/When the works around Collin Street start I can't imagine they'd be able to stick to journey times while it's in progress either
 
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I got one the other day about the Villager (I'm presuming the Burton one as it didn't specify), just stated planning changes for 2017.
 

howittpie

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Just noticed the Y36 is being cut back even further from 13th November the last journey from Victoria Centre is going to be 18.15 Mon-Sat I can't see the service lasting much longer.
 

Pe251lz

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This one is priceless!
A new timetable wil be in place from 20 November to improve the service with changes to some journeys at the start and at the end of the day.

Abandoning all but the entire off-peak service = improvement!

I sort of agree that this service is likely to be in terminal decline. It is now - isolated from what is now YB heartland: Northern Derby and area. It is even competing with another YB service- Y5 for much of its route.
 

ag51ruk

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Finally, the Mickleover will get its fabulous makeover on Friday 9th December

https://www.facebook.com/trentbartonland/posts/1277321125622638

A few weeks later than planned, I suspect - the timetable was changed two weeks ago (lower frequency in the afternoon to cope with traffic congestion without needing more than 8 vehicles) and the bus stop poles and timetable displays were all painted pink by then as well. Looking forward to trying them though - they will certainly stand out!
 
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Good night for NCT at the UK bus awards: 4th time UK bus operator of the year gold winner and top city operator. Reading and Lothian also do well. A good night for municipal operators in fact.
UK Bus Operator of the Year sponsored by Arthur J Gallagher & QBE Insurance

Winner, Gold Award: , Nottingham City Transport
Winner, Silver Award: , Reading Buses
Winner, Bronze Award: , Prentice Coaches
 
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ivanhoe

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Just come back on 'South Notts' number 1 today. Have to say that NCT are a cut above most operators. Route information that works on the buses and their seats are great. A more comfortable ride than Arriva's 127 buses and their staff are more customer friendly. Well done NCT.
 

howittpie

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The changes are now up on the NCT website for the Clifton services.
TO CLIFTON BUS SERVICES FROM JANUARY 2017
1 hour ago 15th December 2016, in Service Changes

Nottingham City Transport will be making important changes to the Clifton bus network, from 29 January 2017, after a thorough review of the impact of the new tram line running in the area.

Customer demand and travel habits have changed and whilst bus use in some parts of Clifton remains good, there are some parts where usage has fallen by in excess of 30% since the tram started operating, which makes the current bus network unsustainable.

NCT remains committed to providing a bus service to Clifton, as it has done since the Estate was built over 60 years ago, but needs to revise the local bus network based around the changed travel habits.

The new bus network requires exactly the same number of buses as the current network, but is designed to reallocate resources to where the demand for bus services is the highest and these areas will benefit from an improved service.

The new bus network offers these improvements:

Increasing frequencies on South Notts 1 and Navy 3 to every 20 minutes (both are currently half-hourly) during Monday to Saturday daytimes
Extending Navy 3 to serve the Hartness Road area in Clifton, 7 days a week, providing improved links to Clifton Centre and a service to the City Centre
Re-routing Navy 3 along Farnborough Road and Southchurch Drive, to provide improved access to the main shopping, leisure and health facilities in Clifton Centre, with buses stopping at the main bus stop on Southchurch Drive
Increasing evening frequencies on South Notts 1 with later buses to East Leake and Loughborough on all days of the week
Increasing evening frequencies on Navy 3 with buses up to every 30 minutes in the early evening
Extending Sunday daytime services on Navy 3 from Ruddington through to Clifton
Diverting Navy 48 through Electric Avenue on all days, to provide improved links to the Riverside Retail Park and industrial area
Navy 2, which currently operates along Farnborough Road, Green Lane East and Summerwood Lane will be withdrawn as part of these changes, but will be replaced by changes to Navy 3 and Nottingham City Council’s Local Link service, L64. This ensures that all roads currently served by a bus in Clifton, will continue to be served.

David Astill, NCT Commercial Manager commented: “The changes that NCT will be making are our response to the change in travel habits since the Clifton tram line became operational in August of last year. We deliberately avoided making any quick and rash decisions and have instead allowed the market to settle. These changes do not take out resources and we are striving to use those existing resources more effectively so that we can offer an improved service to those areas where the greatest demand and potential exists whilst avoiding unnecessary head-on competition with the tram.”

In addition, from the same date, NCT’s new Navy 49, 49X buses will be introduced to replace Citylink 1 for Queen’s Drive, Electric Avenue and the Boots Factory, whilst a dedicated new Centrelink Park & Ride will be introduced for Queen’s Drive Park & Ride Site.

Full timetable information is below and a printed “Clifton Bus Network” Guide will be available early in the New Year and distributed to households in Clifton.
 
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Love the 37-40 minute layover on the 2 at Hartness Road in the evenings and on Sundays. Seems mad.

Also (route 1) the 20 minute frequency to Loughborough. Still has 40 minute gaps after 2pm and an hour 330-430pm from Loughborough. Improvement is just 10am-2pm and after 7pm it seems....
 

SCH117X

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Love the 37-40 minute layover on the 2 at Hartness Road in the evenings and on Sundays. Seems mad.

Enough time for the 2 to run empty to and from the Gotham garage if it needs to! What equally odd is the last working, for a Gotham depot service, being to Nottingham rather than Clifton.
 

richardderby

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The 59 shows as being registered by Notts & Derby last week, with an effective date of 15th August 2016.

from DCC website N+D 59 ;From 11 February 2017 No service Service withdrawn (see Y59 for alternative)

59 withdrawn on 11th Feb leaving just the Y59, i wonder if the Y59 will go back to the original route, serving the Oakwood area.:|
 
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Mugby

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from DCC website N+D 59 ;From 11 February 2017 No service Service withdrawn (see Y59 for alternative)

59 withdrawn on 11th Feb leaving just the Y59, i wonder if the Y59 will go back to the original route, serving the Oakwood area.:|

I'm pleased to hear it to be honest, it was a silly attempt by Wellglade to drive Yourbus off a service where passengers are scarce most of the time.

I have observed N&D 59 several times and it never seems to have more than a couple of passengers on. Serves them right!
 

ALIEN14247

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But there is bigger news!!!
This thread is going to have to get changed to 'Derby bus wars' once the new 1/1A begins.
And don't get me started on the Y36 being cancelled
 
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