Nottingham Station: Access to platforms from footbridge

[jfowkes]

How crowded will the main stairs and concourse get with everyone having to use them?

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm not familiar with the station, but could they not split the bridge into two half's along its length, one side barriered off form platform access? Or is the bridge too narrow for that (or is access to the platforms from either side of the bridge meaning what I've suggested isn't possible)?

 

[MikeWM]

Nottingham already needed a bridge further to the east than this to make transferring between platforms easier. This will make things considerably worse still - rather like Newport, but even more irritating. Surely there is a better solution?

 

[m_m]

Thinking about it - could they not do similar to what is at Exeter Central? The main building is at one end and that is the main exit. Right at the other end of the platforms there is a small entrance/exit with ticket gates. There's no staff there, but I think they are managed remotely - if you have a ticket you can get in/out - if you don't, you can't. I'm sure I've remembered that right...

 

[duffield]

I'm not familiar with the station, but could they not split the bridge into two half's along its length, one side barriered off form platform access? Or is the bridge too narrow for that (or is access to the platforms from either side of the bridge meaning what I've suggested isn't possible)?

It's technically possible since the bridge accesses all the platforms on both sides and either side can be closed off independently, but I'd say it's probably too narrow. But I don't know if there's some absolute minimum width requirement for safety reasons. There's still the issue that the footpath part of the bridge has to have access to P7 and its exit, and so to all the other platforms.

I know listing makes it more difficult and expensive but it's not impossible to build a new footbridge, listed buildings *can* be altered! I wonder if ground conditions would allow a subway? Maybe the water table's too high or something.

 

[PeteJB]

I'd say it'd be too narrow - that bridge can get *very* crowded at times, especially on football days.

 

[edwin_m]

Thinking about it - could they not do similar to what is at Exeter Central? The main building is at one end and that is the main exit. Right at the other end of the platforms there is a small entrance/exit with ticket gates. There's no staff there, but I think they are managed remotely - if you have a ticket you can get in/out - if you don't, you can't. I'm sure I've remembered that right...

The problem at Nottingham is the public right of way which means people can insist on walking over the bridge without having a ticket. Any form of barrier or manual check would have to let them past, after which if someone wants to go onto a platform there's not much anyone can do about it.

It's technically possible since the bridge accesses all the platforms on both sides and either side can be closed off independently, but I'd say it's probably too narrow. But I don't know if there's some absolute minimum width requirement for safety reasons. There's still the issue that the footpath part of the bridge has to have access to P7 and its exit, and so to all the other platforms.

I know listing makes it more difficult and expensive but it's not impossible to build a new footbridge, listed buildings *can* be altered! I wonder if ground conditions would allow a subway? Maybe the water table's too high or something.

I doubt there's be a problem approving a bridge to the east of the existing buildings, roughly where the one was that was removed about 35 years ago. This would also provide a much better interchange between the east end platforms, much better than even the existing "centre" bridge which is in fact well west of the mid-point of the platforms. Something like this would probably be required as a secondary means of escape if this was a new station.

But it would cost money.

 

[20200506]

It's technically possible since the bridge accesses all the platforms on both sides and either side can be closed off independently, but I'd say it's probably too narrow. But I don't know if there's some absolute minimum width requirement for safety reasons. There's still the issue that the footpath part of the bridge has to have access to P7 and its exit, and so to all the other platforms.

I'm pretty sure I've been to a station footbridge that operated like that. I reckon it was Farnham and the attached photo from Google Maps seems to confirm it (taken from https://maps.app.goo.gl/iu5vBidRqP9AD1LR6?g_st=ac). The width seems similar too.

WRT P7, from memory (and satellite imagery) the stairs are set well back from the platform edge so maybe it could be sorted out with some fencing alterations.

I'd say it'd be too narrow - that bridge can get *very* crowded at times, especially on football days.

I'm sure some sort of special measures can be introduced for match days.

 

[Tram203]

Simpleton question;

I arrive at Nottingham on any platform 1-6 inclusive. How do I access the trams?

 

[edwin_m]

Simpleton question;

I arrive at Nottingham on any platform 1-6 inclusive. How do I access the trams?

Without using the bridge in question, you go to the steps or lifts at the very west end of the platform, through the barriers and across the big hall with the ticket office and Co-op at opposite ends. Pass through into the next area, then left and left again and continue down to the end where there are stairs/escalator/lift up to the tram stop.

 

[DDB]

Simpleton question;

I arrive at Nottingham on any platform 1-6 inclusive. How do I access the trams?

Via the main station. Which will likely be a longer way round than now.

 

[Tram203]

Without using the bridge in question, you go to the steps or lifts at the very west end of the platform, through the barriers and across the big hall with the ticket office and Co-op at opposite ends. Pass through into the next area, then left and left again and continue down to the end where there are stairs/escalator/lift up to the tram stop.

Thanks.

On a separate note, if this becomes a permanent change, I wonder if the minimum connection time for changing trains will need increasing.

 

[duffield]

The distance via the footbridge to the town end of the tram platforms is currently an average of around 125m. The distance to the opposite end of the tram platforms, where you will need to go from Monday, is around 250m (and involves going through the barriers of course). So I make that around 2 minutes extra. Obviously it depends on which platform you're starting from.

E.g. From P7 there's nothing in it, the route through the barriers is the same distance as the footbridge route, about 175m each way.

 

[DDB]

It has made the local press. In summary noone they talked to is happy about it especially the owner of businesses that will lose all their passing trade.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/business-owner-speaks-out-after-9664177.amp

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Didn't they try closing that bridge before but had to lament due to it being a right of way (hence not being able to close off 7), although what's to stop a fare evader just going down to 7 and then circling back to their platform,

True. It might deter the odd one who can't be asked to walk or who have left it to the last minute to arrive for their train, but any brazen offender will soon get wind of this and plan accordingly. No doubt Local Social Media will soon be awash with tips on how to do just this with the new arrangements....

 

[duffield]

True. It might deter the odd one who can't be asked to walk or who have left it to the last minute to arrive for their train, but any brazen offender will soon get wind of this and plan accordingly. No doubt Local Social Media will soon be awash with tips on how to do just this with the new arrangements....

I suppose they can much more easily and cheaply do a revenue block just on P7 than on all the stairways. It would need a fraction of the staff.

 

[tram21]

I suppose they can much more easily and cheaply do a revenue block just on P7 than on all the stairways. It would need a fraction of the staff.

That's what was inferred through the press-release, I may be wrong but I think the plan is to have a permanent revenue block there, or at least most of the time during the trial.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

I doubt there's be a problem approving a bridge to the east of the existing buildings, roughly where the one was that was removed about 35 years ago. This would also provide a much better interchange between the east end platforms, much better than even the existing "centre" bridge which is in fact well west of the mid-point of the platforms.

A bridge there would certainly be very handy now following the insertion of the new platform 4 a few years back and the increased use of platform 2 (the bay) compared to 'in my day' of 30 or so years ago when it was hardly ever used.

 

[800001]

It has made the local press. In summary noone they talked to is happy about it especially the owner of businesses that will lose all their passing trade.
Business owner on 'detrimental' decision for station exit to close https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/business-owner-speaks-out-after-9664177#ICID=Android_NottinghamPostNewApp_AppShare

link does not load

 

[DDB]

link does not load

Hopefully fixed

 

[m_m]

The problem at Nottingham is the public right of way which means people can insist on walking over the bridge without having a ticket. Any form of barrier or manual check would have to let them past, after which if someone wants to go onto a platform there's not much anyone can do about it.

I doubt there's be a problem approving a bridge to the east of the existing buildings, roughly where the one was that was removed about 35 years ago. This would also provide a much better interchange between the east end platforms, much better than even the existing "centre" bridge which is in fact well west of the mid-point of the platforms. Something like this would probably be required as a secondary means of escape if this was a new station.

But it would cost money.

I think the Derby Bridge is also a right of way, but barrier at each end? Or maybe I just assumed this. At the very least they seem to let thousands of football fans through and quite a lot of college students.

 

[DDB]

I think the Derby Bridge is also a right of way, but barrier at each end? Or maybe I just assumed this. At the very least they seem to let thousands of football fans through and quite a lot of college students.

It is a right of way or at least there is a planning condition that means they have to let people cross but it isn't that well known.

 

[LLivery]

I'm not surprised people aren't happy, I used this bridge a lot to access Trams and if I was walking from across the river.

Seeing every train departing this station has a guard, I would've thought the solution is to check tickets immediately upon departure rather than inconvenience 1000s of people every day

 

[LowLevel]

I'm not surprised people aren't happy, I used this bridge a lot to access Trams and if I was walking from across the river.

Seeing every train departing this station has a guard, I would've thought the solution is to check tickets immediately upon departure rather than inconvenience 1000s of people every day

The problem is that most of the routes out of Nottingham depart into areas where should someone board and say "I can't/won't pay, what are you going to do about it?" (which is an every day occurrence out of that city, I had 3 on one train before Beeston the other day) there's sod all you can do about it, short of screwing the train down and stopping the job until BTP drive out to wherever you are, if they're not busy.

Thus the theory is make it very difficult to get in at all, and you should see attendant assaults on train crew reduce.

Read same regarding drug addicts wandering in and shooting up in the platform toilets and causing trouble.

I say this without any support or otherwise for the proposal - just the rationale behind it.

Guards are fine to mop up those who "pay when challenged", "can't pay/won't pay" in the era where the guard dragging them off the train and leaving them somewhere unpleasant as per the old days is the target.

 

[LLivery]

The problem is that most of the routes out of Nottingham depart into areas where should someone board and say "I can't/won't pay, what are you going to do about it?" (which is an every day occurrence out of that city, I had 3 on one train before Beeston the other day) there's sod all you can do about it, short of screwing the train down and stopping the job until BTP drive out to wherever you are, if they're not busy.

Thus the theory is make it very difficult to get in at all, and you should see attendant assaults on train crew reduce.

Read same regarding drug addicts wandering in and shooting up in the platform toilets and causing trouble.

I say this without any support or otherwise for the proposal - just the rationale behind it.

Guards are fine to mop up those who "pay when challenged", "can't pay/won't pay" in the era where the guard dragging them off the train and leaving them somewhere unpleasant as per the old days is the target.

Fair point, but if they're that brazen they'll just push through or tailgate through the gates, no? If the guard can't do much, what difference will gateline staff make? I see all kinds of people do this on a regular basis, nearly always unchallenged. I can't see how this'll make a real difference unless it's literally policed by police.

 

[pitdiver]

I travelled on the Robin Hood line on Thursday 24th of this month.. the train arrived along side platform 1b. I had to get the train to St Pancras from platform 7. All I can say it's one almighty walk from 1b to 7 via the main Cross bridge. Specially if you suffer from the sciatica like I do.

 

[eastdyke]

The problem is that most of the routes out of Nottingham depart into areas where should someone board and say "I can't/won't pay, what are you going to do about it?" (which is an every day occurrence out of that city, I had 3 on one train before Beeston the other day) there's sod all you can do about it, short of screwing the train down and stopping the job until BTP drive out to wherever you are, if they're not busy.

Thus the theory is make it very difficult to get in at all, and you should see attendant assaults on train crew reduce.

Read same regarding drug addicts wandering in and shooting up in the platform toilets and causing trouble.

I say this without any support or otherwise for the proposal - just the rationale behind it.

Guards are fine to mop up those who "pay when challenged", "can't pay/won't pay" in the era where the guard dragging them off the train and leaving them somewhere unpleasant as per the old days is the target.

I get all of that and I empathise with 'The Railway'.
Like @pitdiver, the issue is that 'The Railway' does not empathise with me.

 

[LowLevel]

Fair point, but if they're that brazen they'll just push through or tailgate through the gates, no? If the guard can't do much, what difference will gateline staff make? I see all kinds of people do this on a regular basis, nearly always unchallenged. I can't see how this'll make a real difference unless it's literally policed by police.

As it happens Nottingham station is sufficiently sized to have permanent police patrols rather than just response and security too. I think the company have probably anticipated all this and want to make a strong point.

 

[Andy Pacer]

For those who haven't noticed the large signs at the bottom of each set of steps to the bridge in question here is a photo...

 

[eastdyke]

Thanks!
Rather 'info light' don't you think? No mention at all of access to Trams.
Chaos on Monday?

For those who haven't noticed the large signs at the bottom of each set of steps to the bridge in question here is a photo... View attachment 167983