Not a chance are BTP going to provide permanent patrols at Nottingham Station.
What geographical area do BTP cover within that area?
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Nottingham Station: Access to platforms from footbridge
- Thread starter LTJ87
- Start date
What geographical area do BTP cover within that area?
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R
RailUK Forums
I don't mean permanently having police officers on site to staff the barriers, probably bad wording on my part. What they *do* have is patrols working at Nottingham station (though they can obviously be deployed elsewhere) rather than just responding - IE they have a beat presence patrolling in and around the station rather than just being called out if there's an issue. Very often there's police on duty in the concourse.
Andy Pacer
Established Member
As per this morning, although that was probably mainly in preparation for visiting football fans.
bunnahabhain
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To add in some context to what LowLevel has said, this is part of a wider project within EMR to combat anti-social behaviour, abuse and assaults against staff, and fare evasion. 60% of staff abuse and assaults are ticketless travel related. If you can reduce ticketless travel, you should as a byproduct reduce the abuse and assault of staff because those people either aren't there or they've changed their behavoural patterns. In addition to this the gatelines will be in operation for a longer period of time with Travel Safe Officers and Revenue Protection Officers being strategically deployed to support this.
Ultimately the public right of way either needs permanently diverting or the centre footbridge at Nottingham needs a solution of prevent public access to the platforms. It wouldn't surprise me if a 7 figure sum walks out of that bridge annually.
Ultimately the public right of way either needs permanently diverting or the centre footbridge at Nottingham needs a solution of prevent public access to the platforms. It wouldn't surprise me if a 7 figure sum walks out of that bridge annually.
Killingworth
Established Member
After resolving the situation at Nottingham, or not, it will be interesting to see if Sheffield will be tackled without a total rebuild of station bridges! Fare evasion (mainly on Northern Trains) is also an issue there. Obviously a subject for a separate thread but lessons learned here will be useful.
Or diagrams and walking times have been amended?
Andy Pacer
Established Member
Do we think so?
I believe there will still be staff access to the overbridge
I wouldn’t have a clue, hence the question mark!
Andy Pacer
Established Member
Indeed, it was more of an open question to the group!
Lemmy99uk
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On a personal level this is really annoying.
I visited 3 days ago and used the bridge exit to access my bus connection on Canal Street. It was the first time I’d tried it, and it felt almost seamless.
In future, it seems I will have to use the main exit, and use a convoluted route that will take 3 times as long.
I visited 3 days ago and used the bridge exit to access my bus connection on Canal Street. It was the first time I’d tried it, and it felt almost seamless.
In future, it seems I will have to use the main exit, and use a convoluted route that will take 3 times as long.
D365
Veteran Member
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- 29 Jun 2012
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Sheffield won’t be resolved until the ’additional’ pedestrian route (Turner Street footbridge) is recommissioned.
That is correct
When at Paddington a few weeks ago was provided a platform ticket to walk from the main concourse to the Hammersmith and City line where it was collected at the ramp. Felt a very odd act at the time, but one assumes the purpose was to overcome the same public access right of way in debate here.
duffield
Established Member
They at least need to agree with the tram operator to have boards at the "town end" of the tram platforms saying "no access to rail platforms, use other exit". If not there will be some very angry people stuck on the bridge watching their train depart through the bars of the gates!
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Nottingham59
Established Member
The simplest solution would be to redirect the public footpath across the tram bridge. With a new set of steps down to Queens road if necessary. It's all publicly owned.
duffield
Established Member
I wonder why that hasn't been done already? It seems like a pretty good solution, much cheaper than an extra footbridge.
Nottingham59
Established Member
I would expect the NET would object vociferously to the extra obligations imposed on them as a result.
That whole tram viaduct should have been built with a pedestrian route all the way from Crocus Street to Middle Hill, avoiding the heavily trafficed roads at ground level.
eastdyke
Established Member
The NET 'platforms' at Nottingham constitute compulsory ticket areas to assist with reducing 'fare avoidance' - so no!
[Signs are 'loosely' worded from the by-laws and probably only enforceable for passengers alighting].
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tram21
Member
That's not legally correct. NET platforms (by the by-laws) are only compulsory ticket areas for passengers who have exited a tram, or have the intention to board a tram. Contrary to what the signs say, you are legally allowed to walk on a tram platform without the intention of boarding a tram without getting a fine!
eastdyke
Established Member
Sorry, yes was just in process of editing.
Pretty sure that the platforms are not public rights of way and can't see NET being happy.
Nottingham59
Established Member
Even the pavements on the street at Royal Centre tramstop are designated "cumpulsory ticket areas". It brings the whole concept of compulsory ticketing into disrepute.
Image show notice of compulsory ticket area at Royal Centre tramstop
edwin_m
Veteran Member
It's not possible to walk through somewhere like Lace Market tramstop without either walking on the platforms or walking on the road, and their revenue blocks have to cope with that so could presumably do the same at the station tramstop.
At the south end it's easy enough to descend from the tram platforms into the station building and out at street level underneath the viaduct, but if this was a public right of way it would have to remain open 24/7 and they'd probably need another lockable barrier to prevent people wandering into the rest of the station while closed. It lands people on a fairly unpleasant bit of Queens Road with no pedestrian crossing for onward travel, but then again so does the existing right of way.
Putting the right of way on the tram bridge would still mean closure of the station access from Station Street and probably also the one onto Platform 7 from Queens Road, so access would only be possible via the Carrington Street "main entrance", through the car park or from Queens Road under the viaduct. In theory it would also be possible to enter the station via the Station Street steps and the tramstop, but anyone doing that would be quicker walking round to the main entrance.
At the south end it's easy enough to descend from the tram platforms into the station building and out at street level underneath the viaduct, but if this was a public right of way it would have to remain open 24/7 and they'd probably need another lockable barrier to prevent people wandering into the rest of the station while closed. It lands people on a fairly unpleasant bit of Queens Road with no pedestrian crossing for onward travel, but then again so does the existing right of way.
Putting the right of way on the tram bridge would still mean closure of the station access from Station Street and probably also the one onto Platform 7 from Queens Road, so access would only be possible via the Carrington Street "main entrance", through the car park or from Queens Road under the viaduct. In theory it would also be possible to enter the station via the Station Street steps and the tramstop, but anyone doing that would be quicker walking round to the main entrance.
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Travelmonkey
Member
well they have a secondary staff only overbridge at Shefield although I've only been ushered through them when the public lifts have been out of order, For Nottingham It is a big F U to the honest traveller whom pays their way.
Well this is a farce.
There are even more staff than usual milling about by the gateline including what looked like security and managers talking to each other rather than the customers. There are no signs at the tram stop. However that turned out to right as the tram bridge was not closed off. However the signs pictured earlier in this thread saying it would be closed today are still at the bottom of the tram steps.
So are they closing the access via the bridge or not? Noone is bothering to tell the customers.
There are even more staff than usual milling about by the gateline including what looked like security and managers talking to each other rather than the customers. There are no signs at the tram stop. However that turned out to right as the tram bridge was not closed off. However the signs pictured earlier in this thread saying it would be closed today are still at the bottom of the tram steps.
So are they closing the access via the bridge or not? Noone is bothering to tell the customers.
eastdyke
Established Member
Entry pads for staff so that they can use the bridge? [EMR will rightly not want to upset them].
And the signs on the platform need to be amended to advise as to access to the tram [EMR are at risk of further upsetting paying customers].
Chaos deferred.
Is the public right of way over the footbridge open 24/7 or just during the opening hours for the station? How hard would it be to install a gateline on the bridge (similar to Derby) and then issue platform tickets for anyone needing to cross the station and leave via platform 7? I assume even that would require too much staffing for EMR's liking.