Nottingham Station: Access to platforms from footbridge

[20200506]

Surely the easiest solution is then to exit onto Station Street and walk to the station entrance opposite Tesco, rather than doubling back via the tram stop?

It's easy if you know how.

Just a couple of sign boards at the "footbridge access" end of each of the tram platforms was all that was needed, but that's clearly too much to ask for.

Is it really impossible for the council or one of the other stakeholders to arrange for one to be put up?

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Cost I imagine. Probably needed some work on it. And the fashion at the time was to have open stations and check tickets on the train.

I think the 'old footbridge' referred to that was removed was the one which provided a right of way from Station Street to Queens Road with no access to the platforms.

It was removed in the 1990s, and I would guess that, as said, it needed money spending on it which British Rail were not prepared to do.

 

[Travelmonkey]

It's going down like a lead balloon on EMRs Facebook page, as much as we all distain the "Rent a thug" RPIs they would have been a better fit than this idea, classic dammed if you do dammed if you don't for EMR and yet the public would rather blame the TOC than those who bunk the fare,

 

[DDB]

Still plenty of staff near the gateline having a chats amongst themselves with only a fraction actually helping passengers. This is one of the reasons I preferred to take the tram bridge.

 

[Discuss223]

It's a case of causing inconvenience to the majority of honest, fare-paying customers for a minority of people. Firstly, the gates at Nottingham are not manned by RPOs as standard, usually CSOs, and there is limits to what they can do, they certainly aren't authorised Penalty Fare collectors and they aren't PACE trained to interview under caution. I have observed at Derby them just letting people through without a ticket and telling them to buy one from the ticket office - which I doubt a hardened fare evader would deign to do. It will also make the NET tram stop inconvenient for station access and make changing trains when requiring to cross to a different platform a hassle. Ticket gates don't stop doughnutting (buying a small fare ticket to enter and leave the station without paying the correct fare for the whole journey).

The set up at Sheffield works well, with RPOs being on the vast majority of services - Rail Safety Accreditation Scheme qualified officers who can involve themselves in violent, high conflict situations and equipped with stab proof and bullet proof vests as well as personal CCTV. It's rare to see a PF or MG11 being undertaken on this route, as people know they will likely be caught and face consequences if they evade the fare. With the introduction of virtual ticketing, it's quite common to board a local service and see people playing dumb by having an invalid ticket, usually an advance that's not valid - ticket gates at stations won't stop people doing this. Stations such as Nottingham and Derby have "Travel Safe Officers" who do seem to look rather bored most of the time, so perhaps they'd be better off on the trains supporting revenue staff/Conductors/Train Managers and working to prevent assaults on staff instead of loitering around major stations which already have a BTP presence.

As a customer of the railway, I have a right to an opinion and mine is that ticket gates are a nuisance to me and I'd rather they weren't there. I pay my money in to the network so am entitled to an opinion on the matter. Stepping up RPO patrols on board the trains is the way I'd rather they went to protect revenue. Services that are rife for anti-social behaviour, such as the Skegness line could really benefit from having Officers checking every ticket after every single station. This would be a pro-active way of protecting revenue and preventing short faring without causing an unpleasant experience for their genuine customers.

 

[Mugby]

What is the distance involved between Platform 2 and Platform 4 via the main concourse bridge? I'm guessing it must be almost a half mile walk?

 

[Warrior2852]

What is the distance involved between Platform 2 and Platform 4 via the main concourse bridge? I'm guessing it must be almost a half mile walk?

My very rough mental maths would put it at about 500 metres, assuming you're going from the westernmost points of 2 and 4. Add another hundred or two if you've got the misfortune of navigating between the furthest east end of both platforms.

EMR says on Twitter that they did some timing tests and are satisfied everyone can still connect between all possible trains in under 8 minutes, so they've kept the minimum connection time at that, so if your connection has 8 minutes and you miss it even with this bigger walk, you're out of luck.

 

[DDB]

This mornings update:
I knew my train was on platform 7 so I went my normal route via the tram bridge and the now shut bridge. No signs at the tram stop. There was a sign at the beginning of the "closed" bridge directing people round to the entrance opposite Tesco but it isn't the easiest map to understand.
There are security along the bridge not at the entrance telling people you can't get to trains this way which is not true so I ignored them and headed to platform 7.

I passed an EMR driver with his hands waving through the barrier trying to get someone to let him through so he could on the bridge to change platform to his train.

 

[duffield]

What is the distance involved between Platform 2 and Platform 4 via the main concourse bridge? I'm guessing it must be almost a half mile walk?

About 550m, 0.35 miles. But it was already 375m, 0.25 miles, via the footbridge. So the difference is only 175m, 0.1 miles, which is about 2 minutes extra at a normal walking pace. I think the perception of how much further it is, is worse than the reality. It's also true that people with heavy luggage, wheelchair users etc. already had to take the longer route.

What it emphasises to me is that ideally there should be a new (passenger only) accessible footbridge or subway near the end of the canopies which would give rapid access between all the middle and further platforms (particularly 1c, 2, 4, 3c, far ends of 6 and 7). It being accessible would be a large benefit as the old footbridge has never been. However, I'd rate the chances of it happening in the foreseeable future as somewhere between zero and none.

 

[PeteJB]

I ignored them and headed to platform 7.

And they had no-one at the bottom of the stairs at Platform 7 checking tickets or any other system in place to divert people genuinely using the ROW to the exit gate?

 

[Ducatist4]

BBC this morning are saying its for a three week trial period only.

 

[Warrior2852]

BBC this morning are saying its for a three week trial period only.

For now. If their fare evasion stats change by any noticeable amount you can bet they'll fight to keep it long-term.

 

[WillPS]

Even the pavements on the street at Royal Centre tramstop are designated "cumpulsory ticket areas". It brings the whole concept of compulsory ticketing into disrepute.

Image show notice of compulsory ticket area at Royal Centre tramstop
View attachment 168037

Sorry for the diversion, but I was once stopped and asked for my ticket while walking adjacent to the NTU tram stop. I was walking from town to meet my friend who was stopping at the Premier Inn.

When I told her I didn't have one she signalled a policeman to come over.

Ridiculously heavy handed approach, I was furious.

 

[duffield]

Sorry for the diversion, but I was once stopped and asked for my ticket while walking adjacent to the NTU tram stop. I was walking from town to meet my friend who was stopping at the Premier Inn.

When I told her I didn't have one she signalled a policeman to come over.

Ridiculously heavy handed approach, I was furious.

So what did the policeman say? What happened?

 

[WillPS]

So what did the policeman say? What happened?

She asked me what stop I had travelled from, and I told them the correct answer (a bus stop in Carlton). She said she had seen me get off the tram, and I asserted I hadn't. She said the Police Officer signalled that he had seen me disembark. I told her he was also wrong in that case. She then decided I hadn't travelled on the tram and just signalled that I should leave.

I asked her for an apology, which she declined to offer. I took note of some kind of badge number intending to complain, but then lost my phone that night and thus never did.

I should have done more but a lot happened that night and it just fell off the pile of problems to solve.

 

[DDB]

And they had no-one at the bottom of the stairs at Platform 7 checking tickets or any other system in place to divert people genuinely using the ROW to the exit gate?

Nope.

 

[bunnahabhain]

My very rough mental maths would put it at about 500 metres, assuming you're going from the westernmost points of 2 and 4. Add another hundred or two if you've got the misfortune of navigating between the furthest east end of both platforms.

EMR says on Twitter that they did some timing tests and are satisfied everyone can still connect between all possible trains in under 8 minutes, so they've kept the minimum connection time at that, so if your connection has 8 minutes and you miss it even with this bigger walk, you're out of luck.

The minimum connection time was always based on the dispersal bridge, and not the centre bridge, because the middle bridge is not fully accessible.

Nope.

There are RPOs who have been tasked with the Platform 7 conundrum and there are multiple ideas for long term solutions which could return it back to platform interchange use.

People have already been caught doughnutting, one amusing young gentleman made his way over towards P7 before noticing RPOs present, then did a volte-face and loitered around for a while before buying a Beeston to Nottingham child single, which was rejected by the gateline as it had been set up to reject child tickets. He was then questioned by an RPO as to his movements.

Ultimately this has been a long time coming as the problem has been unmanageable, it's all well and good suggesting guards aren't doing anything but the problem has gone beyond the possibility of a train guard to resolve.

 

[Mugby]

It's not very helpful for passengers arriving or departing the station by taxi either. Some may say it's only a short walk from the main entrance down to the rank on Trent Street but if you're pushed for time or it's pouring with rain, then it's most inconvenient.

 

[bunnahabhain]

It's not very helpful for passengers arriving or departing the station by taxi either. Some may say it's only a short walk from the main entrance down to the rank on Trent Street but if you're pushed for time or it's pouring with rain, then it's most inconvenient.

There's a rank on Queens Road in the drop off area which usually has up to 5 taxis waiting a fare.

 

[Trainman40083]

The minimum connection time was always based on the dispersal bridge, and not the centre bridge, because the middle bridge is not fully accessible.


There are RPOs who have been tasked with the Platform 7 conundrum and there are multiple ideas for long term solutions which could return it back to platform interchange use.

People have already been caught doughnutting, one amusing young gentleman made his way over towards P7 before noticing RPOs present, then did a volte-face and loitered around for a while before buying a Beeston to Nottingham child single, which was rejected by the gateline as it had been set up to reject child tickets. He was then questioned by an RPO as to his movements.

Ultimately this has been a long time coming as the problem has been unmanageable, it's all well and good suggesting guards aren't doing anything but the problem has gone beyond the possibility of a train guard to resolve.

And of course, anyone using systems such as the Trainline etc, leave a digital footprint, so their travel history can be checked. Passengers seem to be getting upset when they are caught doughnutting or short faring.

 

[duffield]

And of course, anyone using systems such as the Trainline etc, leave a digital footprint, so their travel history can be checked. Passengers seem to be getting upset when they are caught doughnutting or short faring.

Influx of new posters on "Disputes & Prosecutions" any time now?

 

[Vilhelm22]

I had my first experience on Wednesday and any security was basically non-existent.

Entering the station from the tram bridge (I had taken the tram to get to the station):

I had figured out my train was on Platform 5 and was tight for time, so ran down the route via the 'closed' platform bridge. Nobody around to do anything whatsoever. Didn't pay any further attention as my train left 1 minute later so I was running to make it.

Leaving the station to the tram bridge:

My train pulled into Platform 7 just after midnight (so actually Thursday at 00:10), and by coincidence my door was right next to the platform footbridge. Nobody about, so I simply went up onto the bridge. Two security guards in uniform halfway down the bridge by the steps down to Platforms 4/5/6, and barriers at the top of the steps. However, they did nothing at all and I walked straight past them with just a quick glance towards me. They seemed quite grumpy but did nothing. Anyway, I walked straight up to the tram stop from there, and there was no signage anywhere to tell me that I couldn't.

Restrictions may have tightened up since then, but that was my experience. Without that bridge, I may well have missed both my train out, and my last tram of the night which came soon after my return to Nottingham on a delayed Cross Country train (as would be expected from XC).

 

[Trainman40083]

Influx of new posters on "Disputes & Prosecutions" any time now?

It takes a long time to read them now. Could almost imagine the TOC management reading them, so they see what is going on.

 

[Warrior2852]

This seems to have caused chaos at Nottingham station concourse - much busier than usual, not being helped with everyone being forced through four barriers only (all the others being set to the other direction) - seems to be a deliberate funnelling as there's gateline staff checking every person that goes through the barriers (and inaudible conversations being shouted between staff and passengers they're talking to over it all), with police watching too.
EDIT: And a few dozen people just came running down the stairs missing a half-empty Birmingham service because they'd been held up upstairs too.
EDIT 2: They seemed to be aware in advance of what would happen, as there's prerecorded announcements periodically playing saying that everyone should allow extra time to get to the station to get past crowds as a result of the bridge!

 

[ChrisC]

I would think it will be absolute chaos then tomorrow for the first Saturday of everyone having to pass through the main entrance. Nottingham Forest are at home tomorrow afternoon. The Saturday half hourly service on the Robin Hood Line is always very busy on Saturday afternoons, and when these trains arrive at the centre of platform 1, almost everyone usually exits via the now closed central bridge.

 

[Trainman40083]

I would think it will be absolute chaos then tomorrow for the first Saturday of everyone having to pass through the main entrance. Nottingham Forest are at home tomorrow afternoon. The Saturday half hourly service on the Robin Hood Line is always very busy on Saturday afternoons, and when these trains arrive at the centre of platform 1, almost everyone usually exits via the now closed central bridge.

I wonder just how many won't have a valid ticket? For those that don't, maybe the mere thought they could get caught will make them buy one, before they get on the train.

 

[duffield]

I would think it will be absolute chaos then tomorrow for the first Saturday of everyone having to pass through the main entrance. Nottingham Forest are at home tomorrow afternoon. The Saturday half hourly service on the Robin Hood Line is always very busy on Saturday afternoons, and when these trains arrive at the centre of platform 1, almost everyone usually exits via the now closed central bridge.

I don't know how many West Ham fans would be expected on the incoming services from London but I'd guess they'll be directed out via the P7 exit one way or another; maybe EMR will arrange for the relevant services to arrive on P7 (if they wouldn't normally do so)?

Of course, then there's Forest fans arriving on local services.

 

[Warrior2852]

I don't know how many West Ham fans would be expected on the incoming services from London but I'd guess they'll be directed out via the P7 exit one way or another; maybe EMR will arrange for the relevant services to arrive on P7 (if they wouldn't normally do so)?

Of course, then there's Forest fans arriving on local services.

Problem is you can't have two consecutive London services both use Platform 7, there's a brief period where both trains are in the station, one of them needs to go somewhere else (usually 6).

 

[ChrisC]

I wonder just how many won't have a valid ticket? For those that don't, maybe the mere thought they could get caught will make them buy one, before they get on the train.

Will many of them even know about the bridge closure before they get off the train in Nottingham without a ticket to exit?

 

[duffield]

Problem is you can't have two consecutive London services both use Platform 7, there's a brief period where both trains are in the station, one of them needs to go somewhere else (usually 6).

It is a very brief period though, I would have thought you could hold the incoming service just outside Nottingham until the outgoing service had departed. But I guess that might create knock-on issues. Thinking about it, the obvious answer is that they will probably just use the usual platforms, and for the P6 arrivals open the footbridge steps temporarily to allow access to the P7 side exit. I'm pretty sure whatever they do they won't want to channel the West Ham fans through the main concourse and barriers (assuming that there actually are some coming by train).