Nottingham Station: Access to platforms from footbridge

[Warrior2852]

It is a very brief period though, I would have thought you could hold the incoming service just outside Nottingham until the outgoing service had departed. But I guess that might create knock-on issues.

It would likely create knock-on issues yes, that stretch of track and junctions is very busy around that time of the hour.

 

[Travelmonkey]

RPIs at the main gate ready to pounce if not, or at least should be, although if they have to have security bods on the bridge anyway why not just have them check tickets of those who'd come up the stairs. Literally paying people to stand around and do nothing, far more could be done but I can see this trial being pushed permanent at the behest of travelers. They are already heavily lambasting train guards & EMR rather than those who don't contribute ,

they do they won't want to channel the West Ham fans through the main concourse and barriers (assuming that there actually are some coming by train).

You presume this has been taken into consideration, it'll be a cluster**** for BTP to manage if not,

 

[Trainman40083]

It is a very brief period though, I would have thought you could hold the incoming service just outside Nottingham until the outgoing service had departed. But I guess that might create knock-on issues. Thinking about it, the obvious answer is that they will probably just use the usual platforms, and for the P6 arrivals open the footbridge steps temporarily to allow access to the P7 side exit. I'm pretty sure whatever they do they won't want to channel the West Ham fans through the main concourse and barriers (assuming that there actually are some coming by train).

There does seem to be quite a few trains coming from the Beeston side of Nottingham that might be impacted by holding an incoming London. Add in a few loco moves from Colwick (Colas) a few freights and connections get missed and delay minutes clock up.

 

[howittpie]

Went through Nottingham at around 17.15 tonight and was an utter shambles. Hundreds trying to enter through the gates and just 4 gates to go in, only 1 member of staff to deal with it who was being besieged with rejected tickets, queries and Robin Hood cards.after queuing 10 minutes I saw him shrug his shoulders and just open the gateline.

Despite the London service being on platform 7 it appeared most West Ham fans were coming in via the main entrance I suppose the way they left.

All I can say is it was lucky my train was late or I would have nearly missed it. It is obvious this will not work on march days I even think it will struggle on Notts County match days. If they insist on keeping this barmy idea going the least they need to do is use the centre bridge on match days after the match with RPIs there

 

[Warrior2852]

Hundreds trying to enter through the gates and just 4 gates to go in

I'm not sure why they keep doing this, only having 4 entry gates while the majority are set to exit, at times when the crowd flow is significantly more people entering than exiting.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not sure why they keep doing this, only having 4 entry gates while the majority are set to exit, at times when the crowd flow is significantly more people entering than exiting.

The entry and exit gates are in different "arches" between the ticket hall and the main bridge. Both sides are exits so those leaving the station mostly avoid the flow of people entering in the middle - unless the ticket hall is really crowded I guess. Reducing the exit gates could lead to a build-up on the approach to those, particularly when a busy train arrives, and this would block the flow of entering passengers down to that platform.

 

[Warrior2852]

The entry and exit gates are in different "arches" between the ticket hall and the main bridge. Both sides are exits so those leaving the station mostly avoid the flow of people entering in the middle - unless the ticket hall is really crowded I guess. Reducing the exit gates could lead to a build-up on the approach to those, particularly when a busy train arrives, and this would block the flow of entering passengers down to that platform.

Except I believe that they can, and do, use the side gates for entry sometimes, in less busy periods for exiting?

EDIT, 4th November: They're running revenue blocks at the top of the concourse stairs at Platform 7, to block the loophole of the right of way. Stops people from sneaking into the other platforms that way, but also means that P7 passengers exiting the station have their tickets checked twice within 20 seconds (both the revenue blocks and the barriers immediately after).

 

[bunnahabhain]

Except I believe that they can, and do, use the side gates for entry sometimes, in less busy periods for exiting?

EDIT, 4th November: They're running revenue blocks at the top of the concourse stairs at Platform 7, to block the loophole of the right of way. Stops people from sneaking into the other platforms that way, but also means that P7 passengers exiting the station have their tickets checked twice within 20 seconds (both the revenue blocks and the barriers immediately after).

The wing gates have almost always been exit, they're at the top of the stairs and it prevents congestion on and around the stairs.

They can be set for entry, it just isn't done.

 

[fandroid]

Sounds like fun! I look forward to my next visit to Nottingham!

 

[Skymonster]

Several times I’ve been through Nottingham in the last few days and each time the exit barriers on the main concourse have been open and unstaffed. So what’s the point? The whole thing seems to me to be an exercise in abject stupidity on the part of EMR management, designed to inconvenience customers while doing nothing to address the real problem.

 

[LowLevel]

Generally speaking it doesn't actually appear to have been too chaotic.

One thing I have noticed is the almost total eradication of the local "ne'er do wells" wandering in - the beggars on the platforms, druggies in the platform toilets shooting up and passing packages and street drinkers having a fight have totally disappeared in a heartbeat, along with the associated conflict for staff and ill feeling for passengers.

From that perspective alone for me they need to find some way to continue to control access to the place because it's only been since they abruptly vanished (and to be fair I experienced the same in Leicester when they made it more difficult to gain access there) have I realised how unpleasant having to deal with them actually was.

Just need to get a handle on keeping them out of the multi storey car park now!

I'm not sure what the answer is but going back to how it was certainly isn't it.

 

[BAFRA77]

Went through Nottingham at around 17.15 tonight and was an utter shambles. Hundreds trying to enter through the gates and just 4 gates to go in, only 1 member of staff to deal with it who was being besieged with rejected tickets, queries and Robin Hood cards.after queuing 10 minutes I saw him shrug his shoulders and just open the gateline.

Despite the London service being on platform 7 it appeared most West Ham fans were coming in via the main entrance I suppose the way they left.

All I can say is it was lucky my train was late or I would have nearly missed it. It is obvious this will not work on march days I even think it will struggle on Notts County match days. If they insist on keeping this barmy idea going the least they need to do is use the centre bridge on match days after the match with RPIs there

I'm going to be in Nottingham both days this weekend - and am quite glad I decided against travelling by train directly there on both days - instead jumping in a car with people from Stafford on Saturday and Birmingham on the Sunday.

Should be infinitely more civilized than trying to deal with what seems like the rail user being thrown to the wolves by the short-sighted navel gazing from some of the pencil pushers higher up in EMR (Ms Cresswell - I'm looking in your direction) in a vain attempt to look like they are justifying their inflated salaries - instead of the underpants on the head and pencils up the nose types they invariably are.

 

[Trainman40083]

Generally speaking it doesn't actually appear to have been too chaotic.

One thing I have noticed is the almost total eradication of the local "ne'er do wells" wandering in - the beggars on the platforms, druggies in the platform toilets shooting up and passing packages and street drinkers having a fight have totally disappeared in a heartbeat, along with the associated conflict for staff and ill feeling for passengers.

From that perspective alone for me they need to find some way to continue to control access to the place because it's only been since they abruptly vanished (and to be fair I experienced the same in Leicester when they made it more difficult to gain access there) have I realised how unpleasant having to deal with them actually was.

Just need to get a handle on keeping them out of the multi storey car park now!

I'm not sure what the answer is but going back to how it was certainly isn't it.

Let's put it this way. The trial will potentially show how much revenue is being lost, and as most people know .NOW it goes to the Government. All that extra fare revenue.

 

[railsuntcommun]

Generally speaking it doesn't actually appear to have been too chaotic.

One thing I have noticed is the almost total eradication of the local "ne'er do wells" wandering in - the beggars on the platforms, druggies in the platform toilets shooting up and passing packages and street drinkers having a fight have totally disappeared in a heartbeat, along with the associated conflict for staff and ill feeling for passengers.

From that perspective alone for me they need to find some way to continue to control access to the place because it's only been since they abruptly vanished (and to be fair I experienced the same in Leicester when they made it more difficult to gain access there) have I realised how unpleasant having to deal with them actually was.

Just need to get a handle on keeping them out of the multi storey car park now!

I'm not sure what the answer is but going back to how it was certainly isn't it.

I don't know what Nottingham station you go to, but this is an enormous exaggeration of the 'problem'.

What's not an exaggeration is the extra 5+ minutes it now takes me (a reasonably fast paced walker) to catch a train, entering as I do on foot from the Eastern end of the station. Catching a train from Platforms 2 or 4 is a cruel joke: I walk 5 minutes down Station Street then 5 minutes back up the blooming platform in exactly the direction I've come from.

 

[LowLevel]

I don't know what Nottingham station you go to, but this is an enormous exaggeration of the 'problem'.

What's not an exaggeration is the extra 5+ minutes it now takes me (a reasonably fast paced walker) to catch a train, entering as I do on foot from the Eastern end of the station. Catching a train from Platforms 2 or 4 is a cruel joke: I walk 5 minutes down Station Street then 5 minutes back up the blooming platform in exactly the direction I've come from.

Is it? Perhaps as a staff member I have a different appreciation of the assaults, confrontations and other things that occur, particularly later at night and in the early hours.

I've said the current situation is clearly not satisfactory, but what the solution is I can't say. For me, you'd someone build a new bridge to modern standards with proper monitored access.

The one thing the trial will do is give a baseline to work with, both in terms of revenue, numbers of people using the bridge and staff assaults.

 

[Trainman40083]

Is it? Perhaps as a staff member I have a different appreciation of the assaults, confrontations and other things that occur, particularly later at night and in the early hours.

I've said the current situation is clearly not satisfactory, but what the solution is I can't say. For me, you'd someone build a new bridge to modern standards with proper monitored access.

The one thing the trial will do is give a baseline to work with, both in terms of revenue, numbers of people using the bridge and staff assaults.

Just as a matter of interest. Can the public actually use the tram platform bridge to cross the station - i.e. access at the City end, then leave at the River Trent end? Can't say I've ever done it.

 

[LowLevel]

Just as a matter of interest. Can the public actually use the tram platform bridge to cross the station - i.e. access at the City end, then leave at the River Trent end? Can't say I've ever done it.

Yes, you can. Via the original Nottingham Station tram stop stairs and leaving either via the Southern Concourse or the car park.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes, you can. Via the original Nottingham Station tram stop stairs and leaving either via the Southern Concourse or the car park.

So you could say, you don't really need free access to the current station footbridge. Because there is an alternative yards away.

 

[Sand_elf]

I have always wondered why they don't put ticket barriers on the overbridge and the exit to platform 7, and designate the tram bridge as the footpath. It would also be easy I would have thought to put steps down to Queen Road at the other end of the tram platform?

 

[Nottingham59]

I have always wondered why they don't put ticket barriers on the overbridge and the exit to platform 7, and designate the tram bridge as the footpath. It would also be easy I would have thought to put steps down to Queen Road at the other end of the tram platform?

I'd expect that the tram people would vigorously oppose diverting the public footpath onto their responsibility

 

[20200506]

I'd expect that the tram people would vigorously oppose diverting the public footpath onto their responsibility

And I think the logic would be on their side: why should the tram people have to take over all the undesirables that the railway people are trying to avoid? The footbridge got cut off the platforms because of the undesirables, not the because of the public ROW.

 

[Discuss223]

Is it? Perhaps as a staff member I have a different appreciation of the assaults, confrontations and other things that occur, particularly later at night and in the early hours.

Are the barriers in place later at night and in the early hours?

 

[bunnahabhain]

Are the barriers in place later at night and in the early hours?

Yes, 24/7. Generally they've been closed from the last arrival until the first departure for some time now.

 

[Warrior2852]

So you could say, you don't really need free access to the current station footbridge. Because there is an alternative yards away.

Those tram platforms (marked as compulsory ticket areas) are probably the most heavily revenue protected ones on the tram network, it's not uncommon for them to set up teams of people blocking all access to/from the platforms to do ticket checks, non-passengers going there at the moment risk getting caught up in a fare evasion operation and I doubt NET will want to stop doing those.

 

[Nottingham59]

Those tram platforms (marked as compulsory ticket areas) are probably the most heavily revenue protected ones on the tram network, it's not uncommon for them to set up teams of people blocking all access to/from the platforms to do ticket checks, non-passengers going there at the moment risk getting caught up in a fare evasion operation and I doubt NET will want to stop doing those.

Nottingham really needs another footbridge bridge, at the far end where platform 4 is. The railway builds enough footbridges in the middle of nowhere serving underused public brideways. It should be able to afford one here.

 

[edwin_m]

And I think the logic would be on their side: why should the tram people have to take over all the undesirables that the railway people are trying to avoid? The footbridge got cut off the platforms because of the undesirables, not the because of the public ROW.

The issue is that the footbridge is a public right of way so nobody can be be stopped from using it, but it also has barrier-free access to the platforms. So fare dodgers can get onto trains and others can just get onto the station and behave antisocially.

If the right of way was via the tram bridge then the platform bridge could be gated both ends. Assuming there's enough space to do so and the barriers are working 24/7, both unwanted groups would be prevented from getting onto the platforms. They could still get onto the tramstop, but they can do that now if they want to, and there is much less scope for them to cause trouble in a smaller space with full CCTV coverage.

 

[Nottingham59]

If the right of way was via the tram bridge

But then the tram people would have the same problems as EMR whenever they wanted to check their own tickets

 

[ChrisC]

The issue is that the footbridge is a public right of way so nobody can be be stopped from using it, but it also has barrier-free access to the platforms. So fare dodgers can get onto trains and others can just get onto the station and behave antisocially.

If the right of way was via the tram bridge then the platform bridge could be gated both ends. Assuming there's enough space to do so and the barriers are working 24/7, both unwanted groups would be prevented from getting onto the platforms. They could still get onto the tramstop, but they can do that now if they want to, and there is much less scope for them to cause trouble in a smaller space with full CCTV coverage.

First of all I would want to make it clear that I am usually absolutely against closing public footpaths or any public right of way. I am a member of the Ramblers, an organisation which actively campaigns against this. However, I also accept that in some cases, where an alternative route can be provided close by, that doesn’t significantly increase the distance, it can be an acceptable thing to do.

How many people actually use this bridge as a through walking route? There is a close by alternative via the tram bridge but I understand the issues that NET may have with this. However, the route round by the main station entrance is not exactly adding miles to the walking route. Looking at the area on a map I would think most people will be walking to or from locations that could just as easily be accessed using other routes. Would the increased distances involved be any more than on footpaths is rural locations which have been rerouted around farm buildings, around new develops, or even just around the perimeter of fields. The fare dodging and antisocial behaviour does need to be stopped but that central bridge is very useful for passengers making connections, needing to reach platforms involving long walking routes via the main bridge.

 

[Nottingham59]

If it's such an issue, they should just build a dedicated footbridge across the station along the eastern end of the station buildings, to take a diverted pubic footpath from the car park access road directly across to Station Street. It could carry OHLE and save building a gantry for electrification.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Nottingham really needs another footbridge bridge, at the far end where platform 4 is. The railway builds enough footbridges in the middle of nowhere serving underused public bridleways. It should be able to afford one here.

Pedantically, they provide footbridges for a right of way.
If it's a bridleway they have to provide the enormous, gently sloping approaches doubling back to allow horses to be led over it. There's one on the MML somewhere near Market Harborough that must have cost many millions. And a footbridge was provided on the WCML (Barn Lane, Milton Malsor) after complaints by dog-walkers even though there's no right of way to it that I can find, at a cost of, allegedly, £1,500,000.