NS ICE train?

[atillathehunn]

I was in Amsterdam yesterday, and as we sat in Bijlmer station, an ICE train (running empty stock) ran into the station. But instead of the usual DB markings it had NS logos on the side. I haven't seen this before. Did NS buy some off DB or are they DB ones dedicated to doing the Amsterdam runs?

 

[starrymarkb]

I was in Amsterdam yesterday, and as we sat in Bijlmer station, an ICE train (running empty stock) ran into the station. But instead of the usual DB markings it had NS logos on the side. I haven't seen this before. Did NS buy some off DB or are they DB ones dedicated to doing the Amsterdam runs?

They are owned/leased by NS for the joint service with DB. There are similar situations with DSB owning some ICE-TDs, OBB have some ICE-Ts and SBB have a share in some TGV-PSE sets

 

[WestCoast]

NS does indeed own four ICE3M sets, which operate on the joint NS/DB International route; Amsterdam - Cologne - Frankfurt (- Basel). Therefore, technically they are actually NS ICEs as opposed to DB ICEs.

 

[fgwrich]

They are owned/leased by NS for the joint service with DB. There are similar situations with DSB owning some ICE-TDs, OBB have some ICE-Ts and SBB have a share in some TGV-PSE sets

Funnily enough, ive been reading up on these ICE TDs (Siemens Venturio) units recently. Just a shame that First Group couldn't have their way back in 2002 though, i'd rather have these than IEPs!.

At least 13 ICE TD's are used jointly by DB & DSB for the Germany to Denmark (Berlin-Hamburg-Aarhus & Hamburg-Flensburg) services, which interestingly includes the Rødby-Puttgarden ferry enroute. They have been increased by 3 units to release more DSB IC3 units for more DSB domestic serivces.

[youtube]gKlanJwxl58&NR[/youtube]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pc8RIsuqM4

 

[atillathehunn]

Interesting, thanks for the replies. Will probably now never stop noticing that. Hadn't realized they sent them on the ferry, need to add that to the list of things to do!

 

[EWS 58038]

There are four sets owned by NS Financial Services (the ROSCO) for NS.

Three sets have the NSHispeed branding, the fourth still has the traditional NS branding.

 

[gordonthemoron]

ICE TDs are awful, far too small (only 4 coaches), they are only slightly better than Voyagers

 

[317666]

As far as I know, although correct me if I'm wrong, the NS-branded ICE-3Ms are used in a common pool with the DB-branded ones, rather than being specifically allocated to Amsterdam services. The only difference is who owns them!

 

[JonathanH]

As far as I know, although correct me if I'm wrong, the NS-branded ICE-3Ms are used in a common pool with the DB-branded ones, rather than being specifically allocated to Amsterdam services. The only difference is who owns them!

406052 certainly worked from Frankfurt to Brussels on Thursday evening (6 December) so it would appear so. It was unable to use the Aachen to Liege high speed line due to a technical fault resulting in a half hour late arrival.

Better, however, than Sunday 25 November when the same service terminated at Aachen due to the allocation of a standard ICE3 and passengers were given a strengthen AM62 service to get to Liege for Brussels.

Obviously not enough ICE3Ms in the fleet.

 

[fgwrich]

ICE TDs are awful, far too small (only 4 coaches), they are only slightly better than Voyagers

I do have to admit i did a double take reccently at those, rather supprised that DB operates 4 car Intercity units - but UK take note, Still with a buffet car.

How good are they though? If there like any of the other ICE units i know i wouldnt mind some over in this country.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

DB are not immune from late running ,crowding and (in hot weather) - no air con !

Great services by and large - with the best on train coffee in the world IMHO.

 

[WestCoast]

I do have to admit i did a double take reccently at those, rather supprised that DB operates 4 car Intercity units - but UK take note, Still with a buffet car.

How good are they though? If there like any of the other ICE units i know i wouldnt mind some over in this country.

There's only 19 sets of them and while they operated on various routes in their early years, they've found a niche on the DB/DSB Berlin-Hamburg-Copenhagen/Aahrus routes. They replaced 3-car DSB DMU IC3s that operated Hamburg-Denmark before, which is certainly an upgrade.

Rail operators in Germany (don't know about Denmark or other neighboring countries) have to pay tax on diesel, so electrification is more widespread than the UK on most primary lines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ICE TDs are awful, far too small (only 4 coaches), they are only slightly better than Voyagers

Context is everything though - they eventuallly replaced 3-car trains on the Danish routes in lieu of the long awaited DSB IC4s (4-cars as well). Admittedly I've not used them on the Berlin - Hamburg stretch, but that was an extension of what was operated by DSB IC3s before.

 

[317666]

Admittedly I've not used them on the Berlin - Hamburg stretch, but that was an extension of what was operated by DSB IC3s before.

Bearing in mind that other, longer ICEs such as ICE-1s and ICE-Ts also use the Berlin - Hamburg stretch of line. So if a 4-car ICE-TD is too crowded for you, there's always the option of a 14-car ICE-1 instead!

 

[starrymarkb]

Context is everything though - they eventuallly replaced 3-car trains on the Danish routes in lieu of the long awaited DSB IC4s (4-cars as well). Admittedly I've not used them on the Berlin - Hamburg stretch, but that was an extension of what was operated by DSB IC3s before.

Would a longer train fit on the ferry? That would presumably limit the length

 

[30907]

2xIC3 is possible, and the ECs on this route are booked for this in the summer peak - I believe they are a tight fit though the individual vehicles are shorter.

Oldfashioned but comfortable - though I like the ICE-TDs too

 

[34D]

At least 13 ICE TD's are used jointly by DB & DSB for the Germany to Denmark (Berlin-Hamburg-Aarhus & Hamburg-Flensburg) services, which interestingly includes the Rødby-Puttgarden ferry enroute.

Do passengers stay in their (train) seat during this crossing?

 

[87015]

Do passengers stay in their (train) seat during this crossing?

You are advised to get off and use the ships deck and facilities, but I don't think they'd actually throw you off if you wanted to stay on the train. We wandered around the train deck taking photos and no-one batted an eyelid.

http://87015aewn.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/puttgarden-train-ferry/

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

To round off a few things here:

a. the Hamburg-Aarhus/Copenhagen route is split between ICE-TDs and IC3s. As others have noted, the ICE-TDs are the better trains, and operate 4 x day to Copenhagen but only 2 x day to Aarhus. The latter services come as a pair from Berlin, then divide at Hamburg Hbf.
b. The DSB IC4s are still causing problems and currently only seem to be running on Aalborg-Aarhus-Esbjerg Regional trains, as an extended running-in trial.
c. The trains to Copenhagen use the train ferry. You have to leave the train during the voyage (which takes c. 45mins), ie. leave bags behind. The train uses the same deck as the trucks and for safety reasons everyone must leave that deck during the voyage. It makes a nice interlude in the middle of what is otherwise quite a long journey...
d. The ferry can take 2 IC3s joined together, just on one track, but only one ICE-TD (although in principle there are two tracks so two could be put on the ferry). In the good old days, LHCS was split up onto the ferry, ie. the first three or four carriages were shunted onto the ferry, were detached and then the rest of the train was shunted back off the ramp leading to the ferry and switched into the parallel track on the train deck. But that was 20 years ago...

 

[Sidious]

Interesting, thanks for the replies. Will probably now never stop noticing that. Hadn't realized they sent them on the ferry, need to add that to the list of things to do!

Don't put it too far down the list. A fixed link tunnel has been approved by the Danish Parliament and will likely be open in the early to mid 2020's which will render the train-ferry redundant.

 

[Haydn1971]

Would a longer train fit on the ferry? That would presumably limit the length

My thoughts too... Larger sets possible, but this one limited by the size of the ferry

 

[gazzak]

How on earth do they get the tracks to line up with the ferry rails without problems? A ferry will always move a little, and tracks are fairly rigid. So how is this done?

 

[30907]

It needs to be more sophisticated than for a car ferry, certainly, though the alignment only needs to be good enough for low-speed running!

The ferry berths are v-shaped (take a look on Googlemaps), the linkspan will adjust vertically (because water levels vary even though the Baltic is tideless) and possibly horizontally (the only photos I have aren't clear enough).

I'd guess a couple of bolts too for precision, like on a turntable, but I had to get back in the train so can't be sure.

 

[RichmondCommu]

ICE TDs are awful, far too small (only 4 coaches), they are only slightly better than Voyagers

Also, I would say that their sound insulation is no better than what we have.