Nuneaton to Leamington - direct from May 2019

[HLE]

Agreed - a through train will be better. I hope the paths can be made to work. However, is the issue not the platform occupancy but the crossing from one side of the station to the other that a through service would have to undertake?

2 individual services can arrive from the far left and right of the station respectively and not impact on through traffic. The key risk is the impact on through trains of that crossing move and in particular the impact of delays.

This is the key bit. I can see these through services being delayed a lot of the time, because delayed class 1 services on the WCML will take priority.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Yes, eventually. By railway timings though it’ll be mid 2020’s before all that is up and running if you ask me.

Points need to be installed at Arena first for the turnback. Or run up to Hawkesbury points just past the level crossing and switch back onto the up line - a 170 proved those old points still work last Friday.

Several rumours are going round. One is that the cascaded 172’s from LO will be in service from September. If the LO 172 lease doesn’t get extended it’ll give WMR 3 months to train up half the Coventry drivers and the guards on the units. The logical thing to do is then put them to work on the Nuneaton and Leamington branches.

Then train up the rest of the depot on both routes and 172’s so the top link doesn’t become a boring repetition of Leamington/Nuneaton diagrams, with the occasional Northampton/X city job thrown in.

That second bit will take a lot longer than 3 months.

Every single deliverable on the Nuckle project has been late, often by several years, so it would not be surprising in the slightest if the new platform at Coventry and associated signalling works etc are delayed past December 2019, the current due date.

 

[swt_passenger]

The expiry date of the current leases on the 172s is the key here. If the end date is December 2018 then London Overground will have to find another solution in the event the electrification is not complete. As for EMUs there will be plenty of 315s going spare that could be used as a fallback.

There is no evidence that the the Goblin electrification won’t be completed for passenger service very soon. It has been under test using 378s for some time as reported in other threads.

At the same time TfL Mayoral Q&A sessions over the last couple of years have firmly stated that there will be no short term use of another EMU class; basically because it is not sensible to have drivers training on yet another type of stock for only a few months...

 

[Darkinsider]

deleted

 

[HLE]

There isn’t enough drivers or guards at Leamington to make that happen. Nowhere near enough.

They wouldn’t have spent the money they have training up Coventry on the Leamington branch for the sake of a year.

 

[pt_mad]

There isn’t enough drivers or guards at Leamington to make that happen. Nowhere near enough.

They wouldn’t have spent the money they have training up Coventry on the Leamington branch for the sake of a year.

Agree. Can't see them splitting off the franchise altogether like that earlier post suggests. The DFT were pointing only towards two separate brands and business units for the whole of this franchise period and full split (devolution for the WMR region) was only suggested for the next post 2026 franchise.

That earlier post suggests access charges and fees will be charged between WMR and LNR for the shared use of resources and train crew etc. I just can't imagine that happening. Why would they charge each other simply because they used a Coventry train crew on a Leamington service on x day as opposed to using a Coventry crew on a Northampton service? It would become crazy with back and forth charges for every hour of train crew used.

Presumably the whole point of two brands under one franchise was so that Depots could have crews who work services for both WMR and LNR without conflict.

 

[BantamMenace]

If true, this will prove popular on a match day. Many Wasps fans travel by train from Leamington currently changing at Coventry.

 

[Darkinsider]

deleted

 

[HLE]

If that does happen, Coventry depot will most likely become a WMR depot and lose the Northampton work. It would be easier to do that, than for the depot to lose all the WMR diagrams.

Therefore, Coventry will continue to work the Leamington & Nuneaton branches.
Or it’ll have one boring route card on LNWR if it does split

Leamington depot is the smallest LM depot I think?

 

[HLE]

If true, this will prove popular on a match day. Many Wasps fans travel by train from Leamington currently changing at Coventry.

But no immediate increase in capacity on matchdays from what it is now.... 2 car 153 v 2 car 172 once an hour in each direction

 

[DavidGrain]

If that does happen, Coventry depot will most likely become a WMR depot and lose the Northampton work. It would be easier to do that, than for the depot to lose all the WMR diagrams.
Therefore, Coventry will continue to work the Leamington & Nuneaton branches.
Or it’ll have one boring route card on LNWR if it does split
Leamington depot is the smallest LM depot I think?

I was wondering about that but there does not appear to be many pure Coventry-Birmingham runs so does Coventry also do the Walsall-Wolverhampton service? I have to admit that I don't know which depot handles the electric trains.

Leamington seems to be just an outstation for WMR as most daytime locals to Leamington are handled by Chiltern with WMR just dealing with the beginning and end of service. I remember that Leamington did not appear on the route map for the original franchisee Central Trains.

The OP indicated that LNWR would be operating the service but as the whole of the line falls within the remit of West Midlands Rail (the transport authority not West Midlands Railway the TOC brand name) then this line will be within the WMR franchise

I have read that West Midlands Rail wants the Birmingham Leicester service transferred back from the Cross Country franchise so perhaps we might be seeing this line used for through trains from Coventry to Leicester.

Really WMR need the stock to operate a much improved service on match days. One has only to see Cross City trains running through New Street when the Villa are playing at home or be at The Hawthornes when the Albion are playing to see the number of passengers that could be carried.

 

[DarloRich]

I have read that West Midlands Rail wants the Birmingham Leicester service transferred back from the Cross Country franchise so perhaps we might be seeing this line used for through trains from Coventry to Leicester.

I cant see that happening. Would it not entail an equally complicated move within Nuneaton station?

 

[DavidGrain]

I cant see that happening. Would it not entail an equally complicated move within Nuneaton station?

Agreed. I only mentioned it because someone had suggested that for the new cross country franchise on another thread on the forum.

 

[HLE]

@DavidGrain Yes Coventry do sign Wolves - Walsall. Along with the cross city and both Nuneaton/Leamington branches.

If LNWR and WMT were to be split up I’d wager Coventry losing the Northampton work rather than the local stuff.

 

[HLE]

I cant see that happening. Would it not entail an equally complicated move within Nuneaton station?

Neither can I. It would involve reversing via Abbey Street and take longer than a trip across the footbridge.

Better connection times are needed although they aren’t too bad as they are

 

[Qwerty133]

Agreed. I only mentioned it because someone had suggested that for the new cross country franchise on another thread on the forum.

Splitting the Birmingham Leicester service off would be a stupid move for diagramming efficiency unless a path through New Street could be found for services from Leicester to Hereford as the Leicester to New Street service takes too long for 2 units to provide a clock face timetable and 3 units would see 59ish minutes spent at Leicester. Would also cause problems with train crew with Leicester staff perversely not working east of the station if the Stansted services were to remain with XC.

 

[DavidGrain]

Splitting the Birmingham Leicester service off would be a stupid move for diagramming efficiency unless a path through New Street could be found for services from Leicester to Hereford as the Leicester to New Street service takes too long for 2 units to provide a clock face timetable and 3 units would see 59ish minutes spent at Leicester. Would also cause problems with train crew with Leicester staff perversely not working east of the station if the Stansted services were to remain with XC.

I remember travelling on this train to Peterbrough before it was XC. Daft thing was that there was a driver travelling 'on the cushions' in order to drive the train back.

 

[SeanM1997]

I would like to see this service continuing to Crewe - calling at all stations between Nuneaton and Crewe, and operate via Stoke, to provide a third train an hour between Crewe and Stoke, and provide better connectivity to services to places such as Liverpool, Derby, Burton and Walsall. It would also reduce overcrowding on the Crewe-London service

 

[OwlMan]

I have always wondered why there is not a facing crossover on either the Rugby line or the Leamington line south of Coventry. At present Birmingham and Nuneaton to Rugby trains can use all 4 platforms, Birmingham and Nuneaton to Leamington trains can use platforms 2-4, but Rugby to Birmingham and Nuneaton trains and Leamington to Birmingham and Nuneaton can only use platforms 3 & 4. All platforms can be used for departures to all destinations except platform 1 has no connection to the Leamington line.

 

[HLE]

I would like to see this service continuing to Crewe - calling at all stations between Nuneaton and Crewe, and operate via Stoke, to provide a third train an hour between Crewe and Stoke, and provide better connectivity to services to places such as Liverpool, Derby, Burton and Walsall. It would also reduce overcrowding on the Crewe-London service

Like the Trent valley stoppers of old....except a single 153 wouldn’t be a good idea now

Won’t happen without the Nuneaton branch being electricfied which I can’t see happening anytime soon. Just getting a 172 on the normal service will be an achievement and a huge improvement for the commuters. A shame because for all their faults, the 153’s are reliable and mostly do the job well.

 

[Class 170101]

One could split Coventry depot with part to West Midlands and part to London and North Western Railway, effectively two train crew depots on one site.

 

[HLE]

Can’t see many being happy with that one!

Besides, if it was to have one side solely for LNWR, it’d be one boring route card. Northampton - New Street and that’d be it.

 

[DavidGrain]

Can’t see many being happy with that one!
Besides, if it was to have one side solely for LNWR, it’d be one boring route card. Northampton - New Street and that’d be it.

Which depot handles the New Street -Euston services? Surely they don't all come from Crewe?
I caught a train from Sandwell and Dudley one morning a few weeks ago and was surprised that it was going on to Euston as I had not realised that the Birmingham-Euston service worked north of Birmingham.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Which depot handles the New Street -Euston services? Surely they don't all come from Crewe?
I caught a train from Sandwell and Dudley one morning a few weeks ago and was surprised that it was going on to Euston as I had not realised that the Birmingham-Euston service worked north of Birmingham.

There are currently several cross-linked services in each peak to maximise stock utilisation. I suspect you were on the 0649 Crewe-NS service that forms the 0754 to Euston. It has run like this for many years but has only recently been advertised as a through train. There's also an International to Lime Street at 0618, Walsall to Lime Street services at 0701, 0730 and 1431. A lot more cross-linking is expected in the December 2018 timetable.

 

[HLE]

Which depot handles the New Street -Euston services? Surely they don't all come from Crewe?
I caught a train from Sandwell and Dudley one morning a few weeks ago and was surprised that it was going on to Euston as I had not realised that the Birmingham-Euston service worked north of Birmingham.

For the first question - depends on diagram but it could be any of Birmingham, Coventry, Northampton or Bletchley

 

[Jurg]

https://www.leamingtoncourier.co.uk...-in-december-after-application-made-1-8534029

This appears to suggest that WMT have applied to the ORR for through Nuneaton - Leamington services from December, including Sunday services, subject to the availability of a 172.

 

[HLE]

Interesting. I would hope it’s 1 through service an hour and 1 shuttle each end.
Be brilliant for the line if that were to happen.

 

[The Planner]

It was in the timetable bid for the through service, they will probably be in Realtime trains in the next few weeks after the offer responses are done. Dec 19 for the Cov bay and 2tph apparently.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

See also this thread

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/west-midlands-trains-december-2018.165165/

 

[nuneatonmark]

172s are needed to be released from the Goblin line for this to happen and they look like being delayed unfortunately, so don’t count any chickens yet!