NXEA almost leaving me stranded...

[thewolf]

Bit of an essay this, so bare with me.

Had a hellish journey home from Sheringham to Stoke-on-Trent last night/this morning.

All was well until I boarded the 1900 Norwich - Liverpool Street. Before leaving the conductor announced there was a signalling issue at Needham Market so we might be delayed, but was unsure how long it may be. I immediately started fretting over the 45 minute connection I had in London onto the last train of the night from Euston to Stoke.

By the time we left Stowmarket we were about 15-20 minutes late, and it was stop-start all the way to Ipswich, fearing my connection was well and truly missed I sought out the conductor to ask what would happen if I miss my connection. He reassured me that as I'd been delayed on their service, NXEA had a duty of care to me and that they couldn't leave me stranded and would either have to stick me in a taxi - which we conceded was unlikely for 150 miles - or put me up in a hotel for the night so I could continue in the morning (which all sounded familiar to me from what I've seen said on here relating to Conditions of Carriage and all that) and told me not to worry about it.

By the time we left Ipswich we were 40 minutes down, once again the conductor reassured me that the company couldn't leave me high and dry and I should go to the customer service desk at Liverpool Street and they would sort it out for me, otherwise I was to go back to the train to find him and he would see if he could sort something out for me.

After a bit more slow-going we finally arrived in London about 45 minutes late - I looked up to see the clock tick over to 2140, the time I was meant to be leaving Euston to get back to Stoke.

I went straight to the desk where I was asked the question "How can I help?"

"I've just come off the Norwich train thats 45 minutes late, its made me miss my connection from Euston and its the last train of the night..."

"What do you want me to do about it?"

I couldn't believe it. Someone working on a 'help desk', when confronted with a customer left stranded 150 miles from home responded with those words. It stunned me into silence.

I went and spoke to his colleague who was slightly more useful however all he said they could do was stamp my ticket for the morning.

I told him how the conductor had said it was the companies responsibility to either get me home (unlikely) or put me up in a hotel for the night.

Again, he reiterated that all they can do was stamp my ticket for the morning and what I did until 6am in the morning was my problem. I asked him to contact his control, in the hope they might sort something out.

They did. Kind of. After a minute or so, the suggestion came back that I should get the 2330 from Kings Cross to Leeds, followed by the 0335 from Leeds to Man Pic and then the 0511 from Picadilly getting back to stoke at 0607. I have no idea where they got that from as it doesn't come up on the journey planners. I asked if I could go back to Birmingham (so I could at least get to my parents' house for the night), but again the response was negative.

That was the choice, rough it until the first train or a 7 hour detour via Leeds.

I reluctantly accepted the conclusion and got my ticket stamped, before heading across to Euston to see if Virgin might have some customer service staff of any use. Once again I explained the situation and again asked if I could just get back as far as Birmingham so I could get to my parents' for the night, they obliged and I just made it onto the 2230.

Eventually got home at about 11am - 12 hours later than planned after 4 trains (Brum to Stoke was via Nuneaton and Crewe as a result of the problems at Penkridge) and a taxi (from New Street to home at the cost of £13...)


tl;dr - Delayed on NXEA service and missed last train to Stoke. NXEA shrugged their shoulders of any responsibility to look after me. Appaling customer service.

Now, the questions:

a) Should - as the conductor was quite sure about, and as I understood the Conditions of Carriage to state - NXEA have offered me accomodation for the night until the first train, rather than just telling me I was on my own. Or does the ludicrous itinerary they concocted (a 7 hour overnight KGX-LDS-MAN-SOT) exonerate them of any such responsibility?

b) I expect I get the full value of my tickets (and possibly more) after my rather lengthy delay, but will I be able to claim for the taxi fare back to my parents' house (I have a receipt)?

c) i) How the hell can NXEA employ people (specifically the staff member mentioned below) with such poor customer service skills as customer service representatives?
c) ii) (semi-serious) How do I get the idiot who asked me "What I expected him to do about" me being stuck in London sacked?

Thanks in advance for any help...


(Sorry about the essay, but there was quite a lot to explain, and its probably nothing on how long the letter of complaint will be! )

 

[34D]

Bit of an essay this, so bare with me.

Had a hellish journey home from Sheringham to Stoke-on-Trent last night/this morning.

Whom did you buy your ticket from, and what type of ticket was it? I'll leave the planned journey on East Coast red eye train (surely not a permitted route) to others to comment on. Lowland sleeper to carlisle (05:16) would have been another option for you if they were determined to send you onwards by train

 

[185]

Bit after the event but there's always been an NX Coach at 0300ish from Digbeth to Hanley (Lon-Man/Liv night car), if not, one at 0140ish (the 336 Plym-Edi), usually a few seats on it north of Brum. About £11 single iric.

I had the misfortune to drive it a few times in 1998

 

[MikeWh]

Not sure whether this is what you want to see or not. The minimum connection time is 43 minutes between Liverpool Street and Euston, but on the page in the NRT that lists all the connections it says to allow more time in the evenings and on Sundays. The NRE journey planner allows 43 minutes for services departing Norwich up to 1630, but after that it allows 48 minutes. This means that your journey was not a recognised connection according to NRE. Did you have an itinerary from your ticket seller?

 

[thewolf]

Whom did you buy your ticket from, and what type of ticket was it? I'll leave the planned journey on East Coast red eye train (surely not a permitted route) to others to comment on. Lowland sleeper to carlisle (05:16) would have been another option for you if they were determined to send you onwards by train

I had a couple of Advance Singles for Sheringham to London (on the 1900 NRW-LST) and the 2140 Euston to Stoke.

That was another reason I wasn't prepared to take the via Leeds option - I thought the guards might've been somewhat sceptical that I'd been told to go such a roundabout way, especially as NXEA were unable to provide me with any 'proof' of the suggested itinerary (i.e a print out of it)

 

[AlterEgo]

Not sure whether this is what you want to see or not. The minimum connection time is 43 minutes between Liverpool Street and Euston, but on the page in the NRT that lists all the connections it says to allow more time in the evenings and on Sundays. The NRE journey planner allows 43 minutes for services departing Norwich up to 1630, but after that it allows 48 minutes. This means that your journey was not a recognised connection according to NRE. Did you have an itinerary from your ticket seller?

This is correct.

By the letter of the law, NXEA weren't bound to provide accommodation or any alternative travel plans, as you hadn't left enough time to get between the two stations.

But - Did NXEA give you an itinerary when you booked your ticket?

 

[Bill Badger]

This is correct.

By the letter of the law, NXEA weren't bound to provide accommodation or any alternative travel plans, as you hadn't left enough time to get between the two stations.

Surely by the letter of the law the OP was covered

minimum connection time is 43 minutes between Liverpool Street and Euston, but on the page in the NRT that lists all the connections it says to allow more time in the evenings and on Sundays.

Nowhere, is 'more time' defined and 45 minutes is greater than 43!

 

[AlterEgo]

Just looked - An industry journey planner will suggest taking the 2140 from Euston if you take the 1900 from Norwich - which is 45 minutes.

In light of this I think it's unreasonable to strand the customer.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Now, the questions:

a) Should - as the conductor was quite sure about, and as I understood the Conditions of Carriage to state - NXEA have offered me accomodation for the night until the first train, rather than just telling me I was on my own. Or does the ludicrous itinerary they concocted (a 7 hour overnight KGX-LDS-MAN-SOT) exonerate them of any such responsibility?....

If your ticket was an Advance from London to Stoke, then it was not valid via Leeds and could have landed you with a hefty fare to pay, unless an agreement had been reached for you to use East Coast and Northern (which I doubt very much!). The conductor was correct, they should have arranged further travel (not just given you an invalid itinerary) or made arrangement for overnight accommodation.

....b) I expect I get the full value of my tickets (and possibly more) after my rather lengthy delay, but will I be able to claim for the taxi fare back to my parents' house (I have a receipt)?....

Under the circumstances I should hope so, but it could be deemed it was your choice to make that detour. The TOC only has to get you to your destination, if you make other arrangements that is not their concern.

....c) i) How the hell can NXEA employ people (specifically the staff member mentioned below) with such poor customer service skills as customer service representatives?....

Well, those that can do the job generally want more money for it and generally companies don't want to pay, so logic suggests they just get someone else.

....c) ii) (semi-serious) How do I get the idiot who asked me "What I expected him to do about" me being stuck in London sacked?....

Aside from selling the story to the Daily Mail, perhaps adding in a few non-truths and generally being quite annoyed about it? You can't. Complain if you want, but it will probably make no difference, unless ofcourse, a train load of people have complained about them previously and your complaint is a proverbial straw dropped onto the back an equally proverbial camel.

 

[AlterEgo]

a) Should - as the conductor was quite sure about, and as I understood the Conditions of Carriage to state - NXEA have offered me accomodation for the night until the first train, rather than just telling me I was on my own. Or does the ludicrous itinerary they concocted (a 7 hour overnight KGX-LDS-MAN-SOT) exonerate them of any such responsibility?

Having considered your itinerary in depth, then yes, NXEA should have arranged either alternative (and appropriate!) travel arrangements, or a hotel.

b) I expect I get the full value of my tickets (and possibly more) after my rather lengthy delay, but will I be able to claim for the taxi fare back to my parents' house (I have a receipt)?

The NRCoC exempts NXEA from this liability. Condition 42 c) says:

(c) This Condition 42 sets out the entire liability of the relevant Train Companies in relation to delays, cancellations and poor service. Except as shown in this Condition 42, the Train Companies do not accept liability for any loss (including consequential loss) caused by the delay and or cancellation of any train. However, they will consider additional claims in exceptional circumstances.

Whether NXEA will consider the claim is up to them.

c) i) How the hell can NXEA employ people (specifically the staff member mentioned below) with such poor customer service skills as customer service representatives?

Maybe ask them?

c) ii) (semi-serious) How do I get the idiot who asked me "What I expected him to do about" me being stuck in London sacked?

I'm sure you don't want someone to lose their job over this.

 

[Dennis]

Sorry - might be me being a bit slow on the uptake here;

so just to be clear, is it correct that if a valid connection onto a last train is missed and it is the fault of the railway, they have a duty to get you to your destimation by other means or provide overnight accomodation?

 

[thewolf]

This is correct.

By the letter of the law, NXEA weren't bound to provide accommodation or any alternative travel plans, as you hadn't left enough time to get between the two stations.

But - Did NXEA give you an itinerary when you booked your ticket?

Surely by the letter of the law the OP was covered



Nowhere, is 'more time' defined and 45 minutes is greater than 43!

Just looked - An industry journey planner will suggest taking the 2140 from Euston if you take the 1900 from Norwich - which is 45 minutes.

In light of this I think it's unreasonable to strand the customer.

I don't think this was taken into consideration in their decision to say they couldn't do anything for me. They didn't give me a justification for not helping me, they just couldn't be bothered or didn't want to try and help me.

I'm sure you don't want someone to lose their job over this.

Why not? I found his response to be absolutely unacceptable. His attitude would clearly be more suitable on a building site, not behind a help desk. Its the kind of retort that could've gotten him a bloody nose on another day with another passenger...

 

[dk1]

Nobody would ever lose their job over such a thing. Just maybe a quiet word from a manager to be more optomistic in the future.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why not? I found his response to be absolutely unacceptable. His attitude would clearly be more suitable on a building site, not behind a help desk. Its the kind of retort that could've gotten him a bloody nose on another day with another passenger...

Do you want NXEA to compensate you, apologise and fix the problem?

or...

Would you prefer to see someone sacked because they once made a mistake?

Maybe he couldn't be arsed - I see staff like this all the time. They are very much in the minority, and some of them probably ought not to work on the railway. But to actually want someone sacked, who possibly has a family to feed, over one episode of poor service is rather rotten. I find it to be quite a vindictive comment, to be honest. You actually want to get someone sacked, and that would make you happy?

 

[bb21]

I can understand where the OP came from and can see how annoyed he must have been following that episode. I have my own views (strongly) regarding that sort of performance from an employee in a customer-facing role however there could have been a magnitude of reasons why he threw out that kind of response: bad day, poor training, relationship issues, etc.

Sacking him won't solve any underlying problem. On the other hand, if he were calling for someone in senior management with responsibility for that area to be disciplined ...

If I read this correctly, the OP had two separate Advance singles - one to Liverpool St and the second from Euston to Stoke. As it wasn't a single through Advance ticket to Stoke via London, how are NXEA obliged to assist teh passenger if they have two separate tickets with no cross London tube transfer?

You need to read the Advance fares FAQs.

 

[bnm]

You need to read the Advance fares FAQs.

The OP states they had two Advance Purchase tickets. One to London and one from London. Does that count as 'joined' for the purposes of NRCoC 19 or allowance for help when delayed/stranded?

No mention has been made about how the OP was travelling between termini.

 

[wintonian]

I can understand where the OP came from and can see how annoyed he must have been following that episode. I have my own views (strongly) regarding that sort of performance from an employee in a customer-facing role however there could have been a magnitude of reasons why he threw out that kind of response: bad day, poor training, relationship issues, etc.

Sacking him won't solve any underlying problem. On the other hand, if he were calling for someone in senior management with responsibility for that area to be disciplined ...



You need to read the Advance fares FAQs.

Q4. Can a customer buy two advance which join together and form one journey? e.g. ticket for A-B plus ticket for B-C, to travel throughout journey A-C?

A. Yes, provided the train calls at B.

Note 1. Where a passenger buys multiple tickets in this way, if they then have to change their booking, it will also cost them multiple amounts of £10 fee.

Note 2. Where multiple train companies are used A-B and B-C with a change of train and ticket at B, it is still classed as a through journey in the event of delays provided they were booked in accordance with the minimum connectiion times for the station. For example, a passenger travelling Cambridge-Peterborough 'XC only' and Peterbourgh-Leeds 'EC only' is allowed to take the next East Coast service in the event of delay on the Cross Country service causing the connection to be missed.

It seems to me that they are under no obligation to assist as Liverpool St and Euston are separate stations.

Though this does seem a rather unfair interpretation.

 

[AlterEgo]

They are obliged to assist when the passenger gets a single Tube fare though.

For the OP - next time, don't get an Advance to "London Terminals" - get it to "London Zones U12" - this will save a lot of hassle.

 

[wintonian]

They are obliged to assist when the passenger gets a single Tube fare though.

For the OP - next time, don't get an Advance to "London Terminals" - get it to "London Zones U12" - this will save a lot of hassle.

Can that include Oyster?

Using Oyster would make it difficult to prove that the person had atualy used the tube at the time of facing being stranded.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you read the FAQs, they appear to discriminate against Oyster unless they can be read at the station.

 

[34D]

I don't have that much sympathy here. If you plan to be on the last train of the day from B to C, then you ought really to plan on an earlier A to B train to allow for this. If a train arrives at liverpool street at 12:00 I'd say it is a minimum of 12:05 before you are sitting on the cushions of an SSL train. 12:25 to 12:30 by the time you are at Euston Square, then exit the station, have a long-ish walk, go through euston ticket checkers, so 12:40 minimum to be on the virgin platform.

 

[yorkie]

The tickets combine at London Terminals, so providing the minimum interchange is allowed, it's a valid connection.

Many (not all!) interchanges do assume travel by LU, so if the journey is not undertaken by LU when there was opportunity to do so (e.g. someone walks from Paddington to Liverpool St!) and, as a result of that decision, then it would be reasonable to reject the claim on that basis. Obviously that can not the case here as the passenger would have needed instant teleportation, and even that may not have made it!

 

[tannedfrog]

34D - do you happen to work on the helpdesk at Liverpool Street by any chance?

 

[blacknight]

You need to read the Advance fares FAQs.

I know OP wont like this but having read Note 2 on use of AP split tickets it states in event of late TOC a running service A your ticket will be valid on TOC B next service, no requirement to purchase a new ticket. No reference to providing accomodation or taxi though could try delay repay to get refund on TOC A AP ticket.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't have that much sympathy here. If you plan to be on the last train of the day from B to C, then you ought really to plan on an earlier A to B train to allow for this.

He left enough time according to an industry journey planner. It's not an itinerary I'd use personally, but the OP was actually in the right here.

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What?

Not more people trying to con the railways out of taxi fares? :roll:

<Comment removed by mods>

It's not the passenger's fault the railway delayed him, is it? It most certainly is not the OP's responsibility to find himself a hotel and pay for it himself!

Granted, the TOC only has a duty to get the OP to his destination station and not to his home, but I don't think his request was unreasonable.

 

[blacknight]

It's not the passenger's fault the railway delayed him, is it? It most certainly is not the OP's responsibility to find himself a hotel and pay for it himself!

Granted, the TOC only has a duty to get the OP to his destination station and not to his home, but I don't think his request was unreasonable.

OP stated NEXA were prepared to do this routing him via Leeds & Manchester to get him to destination station at 6am, no need for overnight B&B.
Would have taken couple of phone calls but duty is to get passenger to their destination, no time limit placed on how long it would take to get there.
OP stated 12 hours late getting home but 5 hours were due own decision to stay over night in Birmingham instead of taking alternative route suggested by NXEA

 

[AlterEgo]

OP stated NEXA were prepared to do this routing him via Leeds & Manchester to get him to destination station at 6am, no need for overnight B&B.

That is a totally unreasonable itinerary.

 

[Deerfold]

OP stated NEXA were prepared to do this routing him via Leeds & Manchester to get him to destination station at 6am, no need for overnight B&B.

But did not provide the OP with any proof they had authorised this routeing - sure to raise an eyebrow or two on the way with any ticket, never mind an advance one.

 

[blacknight]

That is a totally unreasonable itinerary.

What would Sir like to get home or not, why is it unreasonable when its only way left to get you to your end destination, if there is an alternative route to get you home are you really stranded?.
Maybe Sir would prefer to wait on platform for next service of the day which in this case just happens to be first service of following day, which is what the actual guidelines suggest.

 

[jon0844]

And here is a reason that a lot of people simply wouldn't attempt any long journeys late at night and take the car instead.

Even with rules that should stop someone being stranded, it seems people can be left stranded. Suggesting an incredibly complicated alternative route (and what happens if there was any delay or cancellation for the 2-3 other trains needed, including the long waiting time).

The OP could have ended up stranded somewhere a lot less convenient than London, where there would be plenty of hotel rooms (and likely cheap rooms given the time of night, which a TOC should have access to).

Now we have the OP knowing not to trust anyone, and will have probably told this story to loads of people. Fantastic PR for the industry!

Finally - I doubt anyone who wants to take a train home is ever seriously hoping they'd get a taxi. A taxi would be slow, and any driver doing such a long distance is bound to want to get it done as quickly as possible so it could mean some rather 'interesting' driving. I often have horrid experiences just taking a taxi home from the station, so I'd rarely want to take a taxi 20, 30, 100 miles.

I've been picked up to go to the airport and some taxi drivers on a motorway drive as if they've never been on a motorway (ironic given they're probably on there more than most!) and I always tell myself that I'll refuse the offer of a free pick up and take the train instead!