Daz28
Member
How is the NXEA behaviour different to Chiltern, who charge a premium to sit in 1st class accommodation on services which are not advertised as having a 1st class service?
How is the NXEA behaviour different to Chiltern, who charge a premium to sit in 1st class accommodation on services which are not advertised as having a 1st class service?
Is that £7.00 not just NXEA's Weekend First available "Between any two stations served by a National Express East Anglia reservable mainline service"?However, in this case Norwich-Sheringham I see Anglia have a "AFS - ANGLIA 1ST SUPP 00000 - ANY PERMITTED "
1 Adult @£ 7.00 = £ 7.00
__________
£ 7.00
First Class Single
Whereas a SDS is only £6.00 for the same journey.
Could you help me here please? Could you direct me to the Section of the Act (or other binding document) which supports this opinion?Even so, I would say pursuing a First Class fare on that route with a Standard Class timetable was "unenforceable through the courts"
Is that £7.00 not just NXEA's Weekend First available "Between any two stations served by a National Express East Anglia reservable mainline service"?
Could you help me here please? Could you direct me to the Section of the Act (or other binding document) which supports this opinion?
I've read and re-read S.39 of the Conditions of Carriage (Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket) and Section 19 of the Railway Byelaws (Classes of accommodation, reserved seats and sleeping berths) and of course the Regulation of Railways Act. I've found nothing so far to suggest that NXEA acted unlawfully in this matter though I happy to continue reading through other files if you are sure about this.
Thanks
My goodness, I hope the NXEA move doesn't become the benchmark for all other operators.
Just like the evening peak restrictions introduced by FCC did. (Well not all other operaters in that case, but certainly some others).
I still don't believe it's the same, however. Chiltern clearly advertise their business zones and enforce them.
Agreed.
In this example, NXEA don't advertise that 1st class is declassified, there is no publication that indicates that standard class tickets are valid in 1st class accomodation.
The indication of 1st class in the national timetable clearly indicates those service where passengers can expect and rely on 1st class accomodation being available. I don't think there is anything to prevent a TOC providing additional services with 1st class accomodation that are not listed in the timetable.
Is the belief that 1st class is declassified unless listed in the timetable just an urban myth?
If it's an urban myth, it seems odd that most TOCs will confirm in writing, on forums, by email that it's okay to sit in first class when it's not advertised.
Agreed.
In this example, NXEA don't advertise that 1st class is declassified, there is no publication that indicates that standard class tickets are valid in 1st class accomodation.
The indication of 1st class in the national timetable clearly indicates those service where passengers can expect and rely on 1st class accomodation being available. I don't think there is anything to prevent a TOC providing additional services with 1st class accomodation that are not listed in the timetable.
Is the belief that 1st class is declassified unless listed in the timetable just an urban myth?
The timetable dictates whether or not a train has First Class accomodation. If it says that a train does not have First Class accommodation, then the logical interpretation is that the entire train is Standard Class. What else could it be? If, according to the timetable, the entire train is Standard Class, just because some seats have First Class antimacassars and First Class stickers on the windows does not automatically mean that those seats are "First Class."
Whilst DaveNewcaslte makes a valid point, I disagree. The NRCoC discusses travelling in First Class accommodation with a Standard Class ticket. The timetable says that there isn't any First Class accommodation on Norwich to Sheringham trains, so the OP was not travelling in First Class accomodation with a Standard Class ticket.
I am completely disgusted by NXEA's customer service, and their lack of knowledge, reasonableness and common sense. Goodbye NXEA, Hello AGA!
I am completely disgusted by NXEA's customer service, and their lack of knowledge, reasonableness and common sense. Goodbye NXEA, Hello AGA!
Will there be any difference in staffing between NXEA and Abellio's customer service departments?
Where does it say that the National Rail Timetable forms any part of a contract with the passenger?
NRCOC said:If you have a first class ticket (or the equivalent) and the first class accommodation (or the equivalent) shown in the National Rail timetable is not available on any train you travel in, you may claim a refund of the difference in price between the first class and the standard class ticket for the relevant part of your journey.
Is there actually a rule written down saying that if no FC accommodation is advertised, then you can sit it with a SC ticket, or is this just someone's interpretation.
No, and this is the point.
Expect an ATOC brief very soon....
Well, it will either be up to each TOC to decide - or we'll see every TOC going for the 'if there's first class accommodation, we'll treat it as first class no matter what' approach.
FCC and others could presumably then dish out PFs even when there's no advertised first class fare!
Surely you go by the NXEA printed timetables, or those available on its website? Do they show 1st class?
Expect an ATOC brief very soon....
I appreciate that there is no "ruling" on the matter (which is annoying) but you would expect common sense to apply in these scenarios.
Common sense and simplification would say only sit in first class if you have a first class ticket.
Sometimes the option that is better for the passenger isn't the common sense option.
How many passengers consult a paper version of the timetable?
First Class tickets not being available for your particular journey is totally irrelevant.
Even if the timetable says that that service does not have First Class, and First Class tickets are not available? Doesn't seem very sensible to me... :roll:
No, and this is the point.
Expect an ATOC brief very soon....