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STEVIEBOY1

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I Visited Pickering for 3 nights over the Easter Weekend to travel on the NYMR.

As always it's a great line, my favorite of all the preserved railways, no disrespect to the others all of which are good.

You get a good long ride from Pickering to Whitby, not sure if that make this the longest preserved line in the UK?
(I think the Severn Valley Rly & WSMR are quite long too.)

In particular I was very impressed with the speed of the shunting procedures at Whitby and loco changes at Grosmont. It's a shame there is not a loop in Whitby Station as having a loop would make the operations there so much easier, but I guess that is up to network rail.

The times were all quite good too. Services seemed to be well used and the Whitby trains very popular.

I wonder where all the LNER Teak carriages were though, there did not seem to be many about unlike previous years.

:D
 
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Chris125

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You get a good long ride from Pickering to Whitby, not sure if that make this the longest preserved line in the UK?
(I think the Severn Valley Rly & WSMR are quite long too.)

Dont forget the Welsh Highland Railway, which at 25 miles long must surely claim that title. The combined F&WHR at nearly 40 miles certainly can!

Chris
 

blackfive460

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In particular I was very impressed with the speed of the shunting procedures at Whitby and loco changes at Grosmont. It's a shame there is not a loop in Whitby Station as having a loop would make the operations there so much easier, but I guess that is up to network rail.
I believe I read somewhere that negotiations are on-going regarding reinstating the second platform at Whitby station.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I believe I read somewhere that negotiations are on-going regarding reinstating the second platform at Whitby station.

That would be interesting, there is certainly plenty of space for reinstating the second platform and or having at least one and maybe two running lines in the station area to allow easier loco shunting movements from one end of the the train to the other.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Dont forget the Welsh Highland Railway, which at 25 miles long must surely claim that title. The combined F&WHR at nearly 40 miles certainly can!

Chris

Yes that's true, I had forgotten about those 2 lines in North Wales.
 

PinzaC55

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Mainly through a fear (probably justified) of losing control of their train set - sorry, railway :oops: since it would effectively be converted once more into a main line from the South to Whitby. If you ran trains from say York to Whitby with modern rolling stock there would be people - maybe a lot of them -who wouldn't want to pay the higher price for steam haulage. Then again the single line would find it hard pressed to cope with the extra traffic and there'd be pressure for it to be doubled.
 

PinzaC55

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Personally I think it is rather short sighted. Being (properly) reconnected to the national network would help ensure the future of the NYMR as well as vastly increasing the economic prospects of Whitby and especially Pickering which would become an easy "commute" to York instead of enduring the tiresome bus journey in the company of chavs going to Flamingo Land.When you think about it, who is to say how long heritage railways will continue to be popular?
 

142094

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A few years back the KWVR had plans for mainline services running during the morning and evening peak - this was the idea of the KWVR itself but the feeling at the time was it would have been hard to progress.
 

PinzaC55

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No disrespect to the KWVR but its hardly in the same boat. Whitby is a far more popular holiday destination than Oxenhope and so is Pickering. Malton has a large number of commuters to York and Leeds and I think Pickering would be the same, since it is only 8 miles further. Potentially Malton - Pickering would have holidaymakers AND commuters in the summer and commuters in the winter. Lets say M-P was reopened and National Rail services normally terminated at Pickering, with a well timed connection to NYMR trains to Whitby?
Result NYMR trains chock a block and large numbers of cars removed from Pickering!
 

4SRKT

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No disrespect to the KWVR but its hardly in the same boat. Whitby is a far more popular holiday destination than Oxenhope and so is Pickering. Malton has a large number of commuters to York and Leeds and I think Pickering would be the same, since it is only 8 miles further. Potentially Malton - Pickering would have holidaymakers AND commuters in the summer and commuters in the winter. Lets say M-P was reopened and National Rail services normally terminated at Pickering, with a well timed connection to NYMR trains to Whitby?
Result NYMR trains chock a block and large numbers of cars removed from Pickering!
Living in the Aire Valley and having grown up in York, I would say there is a lot more commuting going on from 'Greater Keighley' to Leeds and Bradford than there is from Pickering to anywhere. The difficulty the KWVR would have is its irrelevance in the local transport network. The bus from Haworth is much more frequent and quicker than the train could ever be.

I agree that the parachialism of the NYMR is pathetic in this matter. Let's hope they don't market themselves as an active part of the local communities' development.



 

PinzaC55

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Living in the Aire Valley and having grown up in York, I would say there is a lot more commuting going on from 'Greater Keighley' to Leeds and Bradford than there is from Pickering to anywhere. The difficulty the KWVR would have is its irrelevance in the local transport network. The bus from Haworth is much more frequent and quicker than the train could ever be.

I agree that the parachialism of the NYMR is pathetic in this matter. Let's hope they don't market themselves as an active part of the local communities' development.




There can hardly be much commuting by train from Pickering since there are no tracks from there to Malton. If you live in Pickering and wish to commute to York or Leeds by public transport you can either go by bus all the way :cry: or bus it to Malton for the train. Neither option is very attractive. BTW the last time I went to Malton the day return bus fare was identical to the off peak return rail fare - but the train is about 20 minutes faster at 25 minutes!
 

4SRKT

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There can hardly be much commuting by train from Pickering since there are no tracks from there to Malton. If you live in Pickering and wish to commute to York or Leeds by public transport you can either go by bus all the way :cry: or bus it to Malton for the train. Neither option is very attractive. BTW the last time I went to Malton the day return bus fare was identical to the off peak return rail fare - but the train is about 20 minutes faster at 25 minutes!
I didn't mention commuting by train (did I)?


 

142094

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Living in the Aire Valley and having grown up in York, I would say there is a lot more commuting going on from 'Greater Keighley' to Leeds and Bradford than there is from Pickering to anywhere. The difficulty the KWVR would have is its irrelevance in the local transport network. The bus from Haworth is much more frequent and quicker than the train could ever be.

The main benefit was to allow easier access to the station, as Keighley at the time was very congested and buses were getting delayed in the town centre. The plan was looked at by Metro in 2009, and going back to Keighley last week I see that the congestion situation hasn't changed (probably has become even worse).
 

PinzaC55

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I didn't mention commuting by train (did I)?



You said "Living in the Aire Valley and having grown up in York, I would say there is a lot more commuting going on from 'Greater Keighley' to Leeds and Bradford than there is from Pickering to anywhere. The difficulty the KWVR would have is its irrelevance in the local transport network. The bus from Haworth is much more frequent and quicker than the train could ever be."

You compared the possibility of commuting by the KWVR to the bus service so yes you did.
 

4SRKT

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You said "Living in the Aire Valley and having grown up in York, I would say there is a lot more commuting going on from 'Greater Keighley' to Leeds and Bradford than there is from Pickering to anywhere. The difficulty the KWVR would have is its irrelevance in the local transport network. The bus from Haworth is much more frequent and quicker than the train could ever be."

You compared the possibility of commuting by the KWVR to the bus service so yes you did.


I didn't mention commuting by train *from Pickering* <sigh>
 

PinzaC55

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"I didn't mention commuting by train *from Pickering* <sigh> "

You just said "commuting" not "Pickering" in your previous post <sharp intake of breath>.

Goodnight.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Reading the above posts here, it would be interesting if the link was restored from Malton/Rillington to Pickering, but I wonder how they would plan to join up to NYMR in Pickering as the land in front of the NYMR station has a road and various buildings on it now. (I Don't know if the present Pickering Station, is in fact in the same place as the origional BR station or not. The origional stn must have been somewhat larger I should have thought as Pickering was a junction for some local lines, rather like Malton was).

I guess the suggestion that network rail run into one station in Pickering with a short walk to the NYMR stn allowing suitable connecting time would be a good solution.

I wonder if it will ever happen. ? Hope the suggestion of a loop at Whitby will occur as mentioned above as it would improve operations there greatly.
 

PinzaC55

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The road you speak of is built on the course of the line through Pickering. A few years ago a supermarket was proposed but voted down by the council partly because it would make any reinstatement of the railway impossible. The station is of course the original one and it was able to manage with just 2 platforms because the 2 branch lines (to Seamer and Gilling) had a relatively small train service.
As for the Rillington link, one of the time-honoured objections raised by NYMR supporters is "It would mean loads of level crossings". This is true in Pickering town centre but honestly when you think about it a level crossing is little more interference with traffic than a zebra crossing! There was only one LC on the main road to Malton, at Black Bull, and again if it was a full barrier crossing it wouldn't really be a big deal.
 

E&W Lucas

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That would be interesting, there is certainly plenty of space for reinstating the second platform and or having at least one and maybe two running lines in the station area to allow easier loco shunting movements from one end of the the train to the other.

If it comes off (funding needs to be sourced), and if the description of the scheme I've heard is accurate, there will still be the need to propel out to Bog Hall to run round. There will not be, and there never has been, a run round in Whitby Station. What a second platform will give is the ability to run a couple more services a day; the capacity of the infrastructure is what imposes the current maximum of three.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Whitby Town Council have renewed their call for Pickering to Rillington to be rebuilt, and as usual the NYMR are opposed to it.
That's a shame as, combined with the proposed new Potash mine at Hawsker, the effect on the economy in Whitby would be enormous.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...-on-line-in-fight-to-reopen-railway-1-4362843

Oh dear, you really don't like the NYMR do you!

Pickering - Rillington comes round more often than a 78 record. All that has happened is that someone on Whitby council has made some noise about reconnecting the town to the rail network properly. Local elections next month by any chance?

They haven't got the budget to do it, neither has Pickering council. The NYMR is finding it hard to resource what it is doing at the moment, without adding another 6 - 7 miles. Pickering - Grosmont is run to capacity during the peak season already. Any expansion scheme would mean government/ NR investment, and that would be the end of the NYMR as we know it. Maybe completely. You may think that is desireable, but it would also be the end of period stations and signals, teak coaches, and anything else that cannot operate on NR metals. Tourist trains squeezed to the periphery of the timetable, as on the EVL now.

If someone will pay for Malton - Pickering, and undertake the upkeep, plus the necessary investment at the North end, whilst leaving the NYMR alone, then great, but there's more likelyhood of them paying to rebore a certain tunnel on the other side of Malton!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Moving on, something a little more positive - Latest edition of the revamped NYMR TV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzaiCihWkJw&feature=youtu.be
 
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YorkshireBear

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In reference to the KWVR to all that commented.
Arup recently did a report that wasnt really that well done and as of the moment commuter services on KWVR will most likely not go ahead.

4SKRT The bus currently is quicker, but and this is a big but, that is with us running at 25mph and slowing down for damems, parts of the alignment COULD (with investment and probably a paid professional maintenance team) run much higher and probably easily outdo the bus especially coming downhill in the morning with the congestion in the town. Also for people going to leeds/skipton/bradford etc it may be easier as it would provide a cross platform interchange rather than a fairly long walk across town.

Like i say this is very hypothetical no comfirmation and all if buts and maybes but should someone want to invest and get past all relevant stumbling blocks then it wouldnt be impossible.

And Pinza there a good number of people commute from the keighley/haworth/ingrow area into leeds by many means of transport so better rail would only help some of the severe congestion caused in the shipley and kirkstall areas at the moment.
 

PinzaC55

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"And Pinza there a good number of people commute from the keighley/haworth/ingrow area into leeds by many means of transport so better rail would only help some of the severe congestion caused in the shipley and kirkstall areas at the moment."

I'm sure they do - I used to work trains through Leeds station and I am well aware of how busy the Aire Valley trains are.
However, I am unable to think of any preserved railway which has made a real success of a "community service" - the Wensleydale had a good go at it but have more or less abandoned the idea in favour of being a conventional tourist line.
 

YorkshireBear

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"And Pinza there a good number of people commute from the keighley/haworth/ingrow area into leeds by many means of transport so better rail would only help some of the severe congestion caused in the shipley and kirkstall areas at the moment."

I'm sure they do - I used to work trains through Leeds station and I am well aware of how busy the Aire Valley trains are.
However, I am unable to think of any preserved railway which has made a real success of a "community service" - the Wensleydale had a good go at it but have more or less abandoned the idea in favour of being a conventional tourist line.

That is because not many heritage lines are in built up areas, i think the KWVR are one of the few heritage lines to be in a large urban area.
 

scarby

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I think all this just shows how incredibly short-sighted and destructive some of the Beeching cuts were.

Now thanks to that we have a situation where Whitby is so isolated for transport, despite a rail link. A 2 hour+ bus journey to York or 1 hour on a very uncomfortable bus to/from Scarborough.

Obviously with hindsight the NYMR would have benefited from running through from Malton, but we have to remember that when it was founded they had no idea it would progress to what it is today - the idea was just to save some line, initially for a few galas and weekends, progressing on to a regular timetable in the 1970s, when even then the idea of running comprehensive daily services in March or October would have been thought of as pie in the sky.
 

PinzaC55

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Obviously with hindsight the NYMR would have benefited from running through from Malton, but we have to remember that when it was founded they had no idea it would progress to what it is today - the idea was just to save some line, initially for a few galas and weekends, progressing on to a regular timetable in the 1970s, when even then the idea of running comprehensive daily services in March or October would have been thought of as pie in the sky.

This is true, but in a situation where a Pickering - Rillington link was ENTIRELY funded by national or local government, including costs devolving onto the NYMR such as track and signalling alterations at Pickering, what logical argument could they make against it?
Imagine a Kings Cross - Whitby excursion where the NYMR picked up a slice of the cake where the tour ran over their tracks?
Savings in costs of moving rolling stock to the NYMR instead of the tortuous route via Battersby?
The NRM only 40 minutes away?
 

YorkshireBear

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This is true, but in a situation where a Pickering - Rillington link was ENTIRELY funded by national or local government, including costs devolving onto the NYMR such as track and signalling alterations at Pickering, what logical argument could they make against it?
Imagine a Kings Cross - Whitby excursion where the NYMR picked up a slice of the cake where the tour ran over their tracks?
Savings in costs of moving rolling stock to the NYMR instead of the tortuous route via Battersby?
The NRM only 40 minutes away?

Yes exactly... And lets face it running some morning and evening commuter services wont hinder the heritage timetable neither will the odd through train to york during the day either. Completely agree.
 
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