Obtaining PRIV ticket when ticket office is closed in Penalty Fare area

[v199629]

Sometimes you just want to turn up and go and don't have time to buy the PRIV orange ticket in advance at a ticket office. Sometimes a station ticket office is closed but the gateline is still operational. Many ticket machine don't offer a permit to travel option so I have emailed Thameslink what to do in this situation and they replied I should buy a full price ticket. After the trip screenshot the PRIV card and the orange ticket and they will offer a refund of the difference in price.

Has anyone tried this with any TOC and is it recommended to do so? At station with no gateline, closed ticket office, in penalty fare zone but ticket machine available where you can't get a permit to travel, would anyone do what Thameslink advice (with any TOCs)?

 

[221129]

You would buy it at the first opportunity, either the gateline at origin, on board or on arrival at your destination.

 

[Haywain]

The RDG Rail Staff Travel site says this:

if the facility to purchase a ticket doesn't exist at your departure station, you should be allowed to buy a Privilege discount ticket either on the train, at a station en-route, or at your destination station. As long as you actively seek to pay, there should be no problem and you will not be committing a travel irregularity.

 

[bramling]

Sometimes you just want to turn up and go and don't have time to buy the PRIV orange ticket in advance at a ticket office. Sometimes a station ticket office is closed but the gateline is still operational. Many ticket machine don't offer a permit to travel option so I have emailed Thameslink what to do in this situation and they replied I should buy a full price ticket. After the trip screenshot the PRIV card and the orange ticket and they will offer a refund of the difference in price.

Has anyone tried this with any TOC and is it recommended to do so? At station with no gateline, closed ticket office, in penalty fare zone but ticket machine available where you can't get a permit to travel, would anyone do what Thameslink advice (with any TOCs)?

Funnily enough I had exactly this at the weekend. Booking office at my (GTR) station closed (at a time when advertised to be open). Spoke to the staff on the gate line and asked if I could buy a PRIV-rate ticket, and was simply let through and told not to worry as they had no way of issuing tickets.

Not sure this was entirely legit, however as CCTV would show I was let through then I took the view there wouldn’t be much scope to take anything further.

As the same applied for the return journey and the booking office was still closed, it ended up being a free ride.

 

[DeparturesBeck]

At King's Cross I've purchased a full price ticket from a TVM due to long queues at the ticket office, then later sent the ticket to LNER with a letter explaining the queues far exceeded their customer charter - a refund for the overpayment was issued.

 

[RPI]

If there is no way to purchase at the station beforehand then you can board the train and pay at the earliest opportunity

 

[TEW]

I travel not infrequently from gated GTR stations where the ticket offices are often closed, showing my Priv to the gateline staff has always resulted in me being allowed to go through to purchase at the soonest opportunity. Never encountered any issues.

 

[96tommy]

To save opening a new thread as it is something vaguely similar, tomorrow I am travelling from Church Fenton up here in Northern land and have a staff travel card. It is in a Promise to Pay zone so do i get a promise to pay ticket before departing and seek the guard onboard?

 

[v199629]

To save opening a new thread as it is something vaguely similar, tomorrow I am travelling from Church Fenton up here in Northern land and have a staff travel card. It is in a Promise to Pay zone so do i get a promise to pay ticket before departing and seek the guard onboard?

Yes, you can obtain a promise to pay ticket from the ticket machine (It is a few steps as you have to enter your intended destination and choose which train to travel if they haven't change the layout). Then seek the guard to buy the ticket.

Thanks for all the reply. Seems like at most stations (even with PF) you can ask and get through the gate line. If they reject, then buying a full price ticket and getting a refund for the price difference is a backup option. Obviously, the best option is to get the PRIV ticket in advance in a ticket office.

 

[Intermodal]

Just to be clear - buying a full price ticket is not required under any circumstances. If your ticket is not available at the station then you are entitled to board the train without a ticket and seek to pay at your first opportunity - guard, intermediate ticket office, etc.

It may be helpful to get a Promise to Pay or Permit to Travel if available, though.

 

[Haywain]

It may be helpful to get a Promise to Pay or Permit to Travel if available, though.

I can accept that a Permit to Travel may be relevant but, in my opinion, a Promise to Pay is not as the Priv ticket required is not and never is available from a TVM.

 

[Starmill]

I can accept that a Permit to Travel may be relevant but, in my opinion, a Promise to Pay is not as the Priv ticket required is not and never is available from a TVM.

You're required to declare that you're paying the fare in cash to use a so-called 'Promise to Pay', and agree to pay a Penalty Fare if you pay by some means other than cash. This would be rather limiting under the current circumstances. Of course, an attempt to actually enforce that may not be made.

 

[philthetube]

The only place I have had issues getting to a platform is at Waterloo East.

 

[theironroad]

Sometimes you just want to turn up and go and don't have time to buy the PRIV orange ticket in advance at a ticket office. Sometimes a station ticket office is closed but the gateline is still operational. Many ticket machine don't offer a permit to travel option so I have emailed Thameslink what to do in this situation and they replied I should buy a full price ticket. After the trip screenshot the PRIV card and the orange ticket and they will offer a refund of the difference in price.

Has anyone tried this with any TOC and is it recommended to do so? At station with no gateline, closed ticket office, in penalty fare zone but ticket machine available where you can't get a permit to travel, would anyone do what Thameslink advice (with any TOCs)?

I'd suggest the staff member writing the email needs debrief or gtr need to being telling staff travel they've decided to unilaterally rewrite policy.

I've never heard of being advised to buy full price.

In the event that the station was gated with zero staffed ticket issuing facilities, only tvm and a unhelpful gate line staff, I'd reluctantly buy a full price single to the closest station on the line and sort it out later.

 

[Haywain]

The only place I have had issues getting to a platform is at Waterloo East.

Well, there is a ticket office in the main Waterloo station. That's what I was told last time I had problems there.

 

[High Dyke]

Had a similar experience last year. Travelled from Whyteleafe South, on a Saturday morning. The ticket office is closed and there is no Permit to Travel machine, only a standard ticket machine. I therefore boarded the train to Caterham. I was allowed through the gate line after I showed my PRIV and explained the journey I had done. I then purchased a priv rate ticket from the ticket office for my next journey.

 

[RJ]

I'd suggest the staff member writing the email needs debrief or gtr need to being telling staff travel they've decided to unilaterally rewrite policy.

I've never heard of being advised to buy full price.

In the event that the station was gated with zero staffed ticket issuing facilities, only tvm and a unhelpful gate line staff, I'd reluctantly buy a full price single to the closest station on the line and sort it out later.

There have been problems in the past with on board ticket selling staff requiring Priv holders to pay full price despite there being no opportunity to purchase a Priv ticket. Barrier staff are normally ok with letting Priv holders through if there isn't an open ticket office. Waterloo East is a an exception to that.

A spate of these incidents probably caused ATOC to start issuing guidance on this a few years ago.

Well, there is a ticket office in the main Waterloo station. That's what I was told last time I had problems there.

How much use is that if you arrive at the Southwark entrance and the machines don't issue the ticket you need? If you find yourself in this situation, the staff there won't let you through and will tell you to go through the Underground and walk to Waterloo to buy a ticket.

Waterloo East is the only station on the rail network where customers are required to go to a different station to obtain a ticket. Officially, the station does not have a ticket office - https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/WAE/details.html

 

[philthetube]

I have just sent a complaint to Southeastern concerning this, I will post any replies. (something I should have done years ago).

 

[Mag_seven]

Waterloo East is the only station on the rail network where customers are required to go to a different station to obtain a ticket.

They are almost implying that Waterloo East and Waterloo are effectively the same station for ticket issuing purposes.

 

[philthetube]

It will be interesting to see what they come back with, the two stations are listed independently in many places.

If I get that response I will be asking to see written evidence that that is the case.

 

[pitdiver]

I have PRIV tkt rights. I was unable a priv tkt at Flitwick so purchased a full price one to Bedford. On arrival at Bedford I asked to be let through the gate. Went to the Booking Office window who then refunded the difference between a priv and a full price tkt that I held ,

 

[bramling]

I have PRIV tkt rights. I was unable a priv tkt at Flitwick so purchased a full price one to Bedford. On arrival at Bedford I asked to be let through the gate. Went to the Booking Office window who then refunded the difference between a priv and a full price tkt that I held ,

The trouble with that is it’s no use if one is travelling to a destination which is unmanned, or for that matter if one is in a hurry on arriving there.

My view is that if I turn up at my station with reasonable time to spare at a time when the booking office is advertised to be open and it’s not, then I am unlikely to make any further effort to pay. In practice this has never caused me an issue though.

 

[RJ]

They are almost implying that Waterloo East and Waterloo are effectively the same station for ticket issuing purposes.

I'm not sure that's even a thing legally but regardless, Southeastern's staff will bounce anyone who can't get their ticket from the TVM to Waterloo. Once I turned up there wanting to travel to Lewisham and was given four options.

1.) Return to the Underground, go out of the other exit and walk at street level to Waterloo to buy a ticket
2.) Purchase a full priced ticket from the TVM to Charing Cross, travel there, get a refund then buy a Priv ticket
3.) Purchase a full priced ticket from the TVM to Lewisham and obtain a refund on arrival - even though the ticket office would have been shut by then
4.) Pass through the barriers and be issued with a "very big fine" (Penalty Fare) immediately

I took neither of these options, but did get through the barriers and made my journey.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Although it obviously doesn't solve the present problems, the current issue of Penfriend (news-sheet for railway pensioners) has, under 'Staff travel updates' the following:-

'Rail Staff Travel is working on a project that will enable those with Rail Staff Travel facilities to buy priv tickets online. The project has only just started ... '

 

[philthetube]

I look forward to that, I really don't like being given free travel by rail staff, feels as if it is dropping one or the other of us in the soft stuff if I get checked., and always for pennies.

 

[theironroad]

Although it obviously doesn't solve the present problems, the current issue of Penfriend (news-sheet for railway pensioners) has, under 'Staff travel updates' the following:-

'Rail Staff Travel is working on a project that will enable those with Rail Staff Travel facilities to buy priv tickets online. The project has only just started ... '

I had heard this a few months ago, hopefully it can be sorted sooner rather than later.

In the London oyster card area it is possible to have a priv card added to oyster and priv discount will be applied when tapping in and out.

 

[Haywain]

In the London oyster card area it is possible to have a priv card added to oyster and priv discount will be applied when tapping in and out.

Which is fine for safeguarded staff but makes life complicated for ‘New Entrants’.

 

[theironroad]

Which is fine for safeguarded staff but makes life complicated for ‘New Entrants’.

Non safeguarded staff get the national rail component added to oyster, just not tube or bus. Just take a oyster card and 'leisure card' to a staffed tube station.

However, there was a thread a few months back about how varied and knowledgeable tube staff are about doing it and places that should do may not be willing to.

 

[Wallsendmag]

They are almost implying that Waterloo East and Waterloo are effectively the same station for ticket issuing purposes.

I spent my first weeks training in the Ticket Office at Waterloo East, when did the ticket office close?

 

[scrapy]

Well, there is a ticket office in the main Waterloo station. That's what I was told last time I had problems there.

What if you don't have a ticket to get back into the underground station, to get through to Waterloo?