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Occasions where TOCs and FOCS regularly cover others work

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Aictos

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It was yes for Orpington routes and to Gillingham but Thameslink drivers are now at the right establishment levels.

Actually I think you find that SE drivers used to drive the Rainham route from Luton, it makes no sense to only learn part of the route eg only as far as Gillingham.

Indeed before Christmas, you had both SE or TL drivers on the Luton to Orpington and Rainham services but now it's just TL drivers.
 
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ComUtoR

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Actually I think you find that SE drivers used to drive the Rainham route from Luton, it makes no sense to only learn part of the route eg only as far as Gillingham.

SE Drivers used to drive as far as Dartford. GTR Drivers took over from there. Only 1 SE Driver signed the Gillingham to Rainham bit.
 

Aictos

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SE Drivers used to drive as far as Dartford. GTR Drivers took over from there. Only 1 SE Driver signed the Gillingham to Rainham bit.

That sounds nuts, Rainham is solid SE territory so why didn't they just let you SE bods keep the entire route on your route card?
 

ComUtoR

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That sounds nuts,

It happens all over the network. Drivers chop and change for numerous reasons. One of which is because they need breaks and they are only available at set locations. You also need to get Drivers back to their home depots. Even SE Drivers will switch at Dartford for other services too.
 

LowLevel

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GTR don't have guards at all except I think for the Milton Keynes to South Croydon service.

They have guards who work all 171 operated services plus Milton Keynes, Guildford and Tonbridge with SE drivers only, and also all 313 operated services.
 

gimmea50anyday

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The most well known ones from my point of view is Northern Carlisle and Newcastle based crews covering the scotrail Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Dumfries-Newcastle workings (a scotrail 156 overnights at Heaton and works ECS from Newcastle-Heaton coupled up to northern units) along with the TPE crews and units covering northern services out of Barton. I think that although northern have more crews now working the Yorkshire coast the first and last services are still covered by Scarborough TPE crews using northern 158s as a unit stays in the station overnight but I’ll have to check with one of my scarbados colleagues to find out. Freightliner crews working TPE Anglo Scottish work has now ended now TPE have their own Glasgow based crews to work both ECML and WCML services out of Edinburgh. they may still be used for route conducting duties along the (albeit rare) S+C, GSW and Doncaster-York ECML if required, this arrangement may be ending tho as York drivers are now signing York-Doncaster IEP for ECS moves and should NPR work require diversions it is likely York, Newcastle and Sheffield conductors/train managers will also sign this missing link. With the departure of Tim Brawn from TPE 3 years ago there sadly hasn’t been any BLS charters organised since which also saw freightliner crews conducting TPE staff well and truly off the beaten track
The GC 180 plus crew working a morning commuter service into Leeds won’t be running at the moment as GC have suspended their operations
 

bluegoblin7

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I believe London underground use freight operators when their heritage stock is going beyond Amersham

Sort of. LUL don’t operate the cross-boundary rail tours - they’re generally GBRf. LUL Test Crew work the trains on the LUL network (these drivers have knowledge of all LUL stock, including class 20s), with some kind of Pilot working arranged for crossing the boundaries. LUL Test Crew aren’t qualified for the Mainline network and vice-versa. Only the 4TC used on these trips is actually LUL-owned.
 

MrEd

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GWR is crewed by GWR staff (indeed I was once in danger of missing a connection until the host was able to reassure me that the guard on the sleeper would be working my connecting train so it was going nowhere until we arrived!) throughout. The Caledonian is GBRf drivers (who supply the locomotives as well) but the guards are employees of the franchise as far as I'm aware.

Yes, that’s right- all portions of the sleeper are crewed by GBRf crews, both on the WCML and on all its routes in Scotland, driving GBRf Class 92s or 73/9s. I think that Wembley, Crewe, Polmadie, Inverness and Fort William are the GBRf bases with links which work the sleeper, but there could be others (possibly Millerhill- for the Aberdeen and southern section of the Edinburgh-Inverness leg?). The guards on all legs are, and have been since May 2017, CS’ own, based at London, Edinburgh and Dalmuir. Until May 2017 the Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William portions were worked by Scotrail conductors based at Edinburgh (for the Aberdeen), Perth (for the Inverness) and Glasgow QS and Fort William (for the Fort William). The Lowlander and the Edinburgh-London section of the Highlander have been covered by dedicated sleeper train managers (based in London or Edinburgh) since privatisation.
 

Tom Quinne

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EWS/DB drivers drove the Milton Keynes to East Croydon services with Class 350/1 units for a period around 2008/09.
They also provided drivers for London Euston to Camden CS moves at the same time.

Freightliner Heavy Haul provided drivers to TPE to work Class 350 units between Manchester and Scotland for a period.

GB Railfreight proved drivers for the Taunton to Cardiff LHCS services, until the traction was changed to Class 67s when DB took over in around 2010.

GBRF provide drivers for the Caledonia Sleepers, Guards by CS with groundstaff via agency.

ATW/TfW provided drivers for GWR Cardiff to as far as Westbury services.

Virgin WC provided a Class 90 + LHCS + driver and guard to Silverlink for two London Euston to Northampton services in around 2005.

Central Trains and Silverlink cross covered Birmingham New St to Northampton, and prior to 2007 Crewe to London Euston services.
 

LowLevel

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Another historical one - EMT, Cross Country and London Midland crews working each other's services for a year following the messy split up of Central Trains.

An occasional one, if there is disruption - XC have been known to hire a crew and 170 to East Mids to cover the 2310 Nottingham to Leicester instead of running it ECS for stabling to avoid a cancellation.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Old news , 1996 before the full re-opening of the North London line , the remnants of Stratford Depot (EWS) , ran some of the services until driver restructering came on NLR. Technically , they were allocated to Acton Yard.

For a while DBS staff drove on the St Albans Abbey branch.
 

PHILIPE

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EWS/DB drivers drove the Milton Keynes to East Croydon services with Class 350/1 units for a period around 2008/09.
They also provided drivers for London Euston to Camden CS moves at the same time.

Freightliner Heavy Haul provided drivers to TPE to work Class 350 units between Manchester and Scotland for a period.

GB Railfreight proved drivers for the Taunton to Cardiff LHCS services, until the traction was changed to Class 67s when DB took over in around 2010.

GBRF provide drivers for the Caledonia Sleepers, Guards by CS with groundstaff via agency.

ATW/TfW provided drivers for GWR Cardiff to as far as Westbury services.

Virgin WC provided a Class 90 + LHCS + driver and guard to Silverlink for two London Euston to Northampton services in around 2005.

Central Trains and Silverlink cross covered Birmingham New St to Northampton, and prior to 2007 Crewe to London Euston services.

ATW/TFW finished Westbury some time ago and to Bristol TM and Parkway when the Turbos came on the scene
 

Surreytraveller

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Are they not required to be Selhurst conductors owing to SouthEastern drivers not signing the DOO camera system on the 377s? I was under the impression that Southern trains operated by SE drivers had to have a qualified guard rather than the usual OBS.
I don't believe Selhurst sign Redhill Tonbridge anymore. SouthEastern drivers requiring a conductor have a SouthEastern conductor. Southern drivers have a Southern OBS
 

snookertam

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The fife Circle loco hauled workings have DRS drivers.

Freightliner did (and possibly still do) a lot of work for ScotRail when sets go to the works at Kilmarnock.
 

Minstral25

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Southern Redhill do indeed still have 2 driver diagrams per day that cover GWR work over the North Downs.

I believe this stopped last year (or even 2018) - GWR drivers now stay overnight with the Turbos parked at Redhill or Gatwick, sleeping on trains for 4/5 hours must be a horrible turn

SouthEastern drive some Tonbridge to London via Redhill trains for GTR with GTR guards.

There have not been any Tonbridge to London trains since May 2018. It's just a shuttle Redhill to Tonbridge now

I don't believe Selhurst sign Redhill Tonbridge anymore. SouthEastern drivers requiring a conductor have a SouthEastern conductor. Southern drivers have a Southern OBS

Early morning turns seem to start from Tonbridge so likely. With comment above there is no Southern service to London Bridge anymore from Redhill, so how do SE drivers keep up knowledge to London Bridge for diversions? Service from Redhill to LBG is 100% Thameslink 700's now
 

I13

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Early morning turns seem to start from Tonbridge so likely. With comment above there is no Southern service to London Bridge anymore from Redhill, so how do SE drivers keep up knowledge to London Bridge for diversions? Service from Redhill to LBG is 100% Thameslink 700's now
There are a few daily Southeastern ECS paths between Tonbridge/Redhill and London Bridge, which I assume is how they do it.
 

JN114

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I believe this stopped last year (or even 2018) - GWR drivers now stay overnight with the Turbos parked at Redhill or Gatwick, sleeping on trains for 4/5 hours must be a horrible turn

There are definitely still 2 Redhill driver diagrams per day that cover N Downs work. You are correct they’ve not worked the first/last trains for a while now.
 

TEW

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There are definitely still 2 Redhill driver diagrams per day that cover N Downs work. You are correct they’ve not worked the first/last trains for a while now.
Is 769s likely to finish this off, or will the Southern drivers also be trained?
 

KieronQuinn

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Until Northern got their Class 195s TPE used to provide a Class 185 and presumably driver for a few rush hour services from Manchester to Barrow and back, you'd also get occasional announcements on them for Transpennine, before being quickly corrected.

There also used to be the well known and popular DRS provided loco pulled service up and down the Cumbria coast line to Preston and back, which had Northern staff on it.
 

Adam0984

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Until Northern got their Class 195s TPE used to provide a Class 185 and presumably driver for a few rush hour services from Manchester to Barrow and back, you'd also get occasional announcements on them for Transpennine, before being quickly corrected.

There also used to be the well known and popular DRS provided loco pulled service up and down the Cumbria coast line to Preston and back, which had Northern staff on it.
They were a mixture of TPE crew and northern crew (ex TPE)
 

PHILIPE

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TFW still take 2 x GWR 158 to Canton on a Saturday night and Prep & bring them back off Sunday Morning


The rest of the week the Turbos off the last Pompeys can get to and from St. Philips Marsh empty or otherwise but Saturday nights they can't do it due to line closures so have to covered with 158s,
 

snookertam

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I believe this stopped last year (or even 2018) - GWR drivers now stay overnight with the Turbos parked at Redhill or Gatwick, sleeping on trains for 4/5 hours must be a horrible turn

Sleeping on a train? Are you sure?? Is it not a nightshift turn maybe?
 

dk1

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Sleeping on a train? Are you sure?? Is it not a nightshift turn maybe?
Night/sleep shift. There are such turns across the network where you stay with a train but dont actually have any work inbetween. Might as well get your head down.
 
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warwickshire

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Aha fair enough. I thought the last time I did it a year or so ago it was a Northern conductor but I wasn't paying close attention!
Sure do by cleethorpes transpennie Express crewe first and Last services off day is a 185. However till December 2020 ie does have a dispensation is a single class 153. Northern 153 but with a cleethorpes transpennie guard and driver. Out off interest how does 153 northern unit now get changed over it used to share a east Midlands railways service to Lincoln for swap. But due to 195 now on Lincoln how is this move done. Also out off interest east Midlands railways where due to have taken over the Barton on humber route from cleethorpes in December 2019. But believe it has been extended ie the contract to December 2020. Anyone know anymore on this.
 

warwickshire

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Another piece of nostalgia at Worcester shrub Hill: Back in the days of Central trains, prior to London Midland taking over, you had Central Trains drivers working Turbos over the Cotswolds to Oxford, especially the first and last services.
 
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Class 170101

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XC used to cover the last train from Norwich to Cambridge and the first train from Cambridge to Norwich for GA and some EMT trains between Norwich and Nottingham.
 

JBC

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The most well known ones from my point of view is Northern Carlisle and Newcastle based crews covering the scotrail Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Dumfries-Newcastle workings (a scotrail 156 overnights at Heaton and works ECS from Newcastle-Heaton coupled up to northern units) along with the TPE crews and units covering northern services out of Barton. I think that although northern have more crews now working the Yorkshire coast the first and last services are still covered by Scarborough TPE crews using northern 158s as a unit stays in the station overnight but I’ll have to check with one of my scarbados colleagues to find out. Freightliner crews working TPE Anglo Scottish work has now ended now TPE have their own Glasgow based crews to work both ECML and WCML services out of Edinburgh. they may still be used for route conducting duties along the (albeit rare) S+C, GSW and Doncaster-York ECML if required, this arrangement may be ending tho as York drivers are now signing York-Doncaster IEP for ECS moves and should NPR work require diversions it is likely York, Newcastle and Sheffield conductors/train managers will also sign this missing link. With the departure of Tim Brawn from TPE 3 years ago there sadly hasn’t been any BLS charters organised since which also saw freightliner crews conducting TPE staff well and truly off the beaten track
The GC 180 plus crew working a morning commuter service into Leeds won’t be running at the moment as GC have suspended their operations
I wondered about the ScotRail services to Newcastle a few years ago, and was fairly sure they changed operator at Carlisle. I've just checked the GBTT for 2000, and all Tyne Valley services - including through trains to and from Dumfries, Kilmarnock, Glasgow, etc., are shown as operated by Arriva Trains Northern. More recently, but still a few years ago, when travelling with a special Northern-only day ticket, I planned to catch the evening Glasgow - Newcastle from Carlisle, so checked the operator: RTT showed it changed to being a Northern service at Carlisle (and the Northern crew accepted my ticket without question). This would mean that this was actually ScotRail providing a unit to Northern, rather than Northern a crew to ScotRail! It's strange that this situation was set up when the railways were split up for privatisation, but I guess that because the service was already there it had to continue and it wasn't felt right for one ex-Regional Railways TOC to be running services on a route for which a different ex-RR TOC had responsibility.

Doing some digging, it appears almost all the through services have been withdrawn. In the current non-emergency timetable there are two Dumfries - Newcastle workings early in the morning and the aforementioned Glasgow - Newcastle in the evening, but nothing the other way. RTT shows these all as ScotRail services throughout; however, Charlwoodhouse Live Rail shows them having a change of service code from 23579003 (ScotRail - G&SW routes) to 21793000 (Northern - Tyne Valley). Now I have to confess I don't fully understand the technicalities of all the codes, so this could simply mean it's crewed by Northern. But I then went back a year to see if I could work out when the more frequent through trains stopped running...

Until the May 2019 timetable change there was also a Newcastle - Glasgow Central in the morning, presumably using the unit which had been at Heaton overnight. Charlwoodhouse Live Rail still (just) has schedules from the December 2018 to May 2019 timetable, and shows this train as being a Northern working, but with a change of service code (21793000 to 23579003) at Carlisle, therefore reinforcing my belief they have always been Northern trains east of Carlisle and ScotRail trains north of the border city.

Incidentally, it appears that in the current "Coronavirus" timetable only one of the through services runs. This is the first of the two Dumfries workings. Tomorrow, it's running with an STP schedule as a Northern train throughout, with the WTT schedule cancelled. However, RTT shows the cancelled WTT schedule as "NT" on its Carlisle listings, but with the train shown as operated by ScotRail when you look at that page!
 

JBC

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XC used to cover the last train from Norwich to Cambridge and the first train from Cambridge to Norwich for GA and some EMT trains between Norwich and Nottingham.
I don't think this was ever Cross Country, as XC have never run to Norwich...

Back in Central Trains days, the last Central Trains services to arrive in Norwich didn't depart until the following morning. They ran to Cambridge in passenger service (and back again the following morning in passenger service) because Central Trains used Coldham's Lane depot in Cambridge rather than Crown Point in Norwich for overnight servicing of stock. At the time it was introduced, this pair of trains were the only direct services between Cambridge and Norwich; they were running well before Anglia Railways introduced the hourly Cambridge - Norwich service. When Central Trains was split in November 2007, the two workings in question passed to East Midlands Trains, but with the December 2008 timetable change EMT stopped overnight servicing in Cambridge (they didn't normally run to Cambridge) and discontinued the service. National Express East Anglia (Anglia Railways' successor) replaced the former EMT workings with services of its own. On the last day of the old timetable, it was reported that the EMT Norwich - Cambridge service would be an NXEA unit, in order to have stock in the right place for the new timetable.

So I'm not sure you can really say Central / EMT covered the last Norwich - Cambridge service for Anglia / NXEA: the service was already running (for the convenience of the operator), although Anglia / NXEA did not run its own train at that time.
 
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