Odd Route Restriction (excluding Southsea Hoverport)

wellhouse

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BR Fares shows no restrictions for Slaithwaite-Guiseley, so can anyone explain why the TPE TVM at Huddersfield shows 'Route excludes Southsea Hoverport' ? (not that it's a routeing I would ever have anticipated!)IMG_20210914_143420.jpg
 
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Bletchleyite

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BR Fares shows no restrictions for Slaithwaite-Guiseley, so can anyone explain why the TPE TVM at Huddersfield shows 'Route excludes Southsea Hoverport' ? (not that it's a routeing I would ever have anticipated!)

It's a bit of a quirk resulting from that line being added to the Any Permitted route, because to use the Hovercraft to the IoW you need a ticket specifically for that and Any Permitted tickets are not valid.

I don't entirely understand why it wasn't fixed by routeing all Any Permitted tickets to stations on the IoW to "route Wightlink" or something.
 

Alex365Dash

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I don't entirely understand why it wasn't fixed by routeing all Any Permitted tickets to stations on the IoW to "route Wightlink" or something.
It’s a bit odd considering there are already Any Permitted + Wightlink (route code 00981) routed tickets available that they could just set routes to (and by the looks of it, the majority of them are!), but some tickets still appear to have Any Permitted routings instead anyway, like this Off-Peak Return from Plymouth to Sandown.

Maybe it depends on how the fare setter’s feeling? :lol:
 

alistairlees

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BR Fares shows no restrictions for Slaithwaite-Guiseley, so can anyone explain why the TPE TVM at Huddersfield shows 'Route excludes Southsea Hoverport' ? (not that it's a routeing I would ever have anticipated!)View attachment 102617
This issue has been around for something like the last six or seven years or so - I photographed a Northern TVM with it in something like 2014. There's also a thread where I mentioned it here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bizarre-routing-restrictions.162882/#post-3415182. I don't know if the exclusion is still current in the data without looking; TVMs are often ot updated for years.
 

Watershed

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Maybe it depends on how the fare setter’s feeling? :lol:
More like who the fare setter is.

From a quick perusal, it looks like on flows where GWR, GTR "Southern", GTR "Thameslink", EMR or Avanti are the fare setter, the fares are set generically - i.e. they do not specify the means of getting to the Isle of Wight, and have the same route as the equivalent flow to Portsmouth Stations.

However on flows where Southeastern, SWR, Chiltern, Greater Anglia or LNER are the fare setter, fares are routed on one of the two ferry/hovercraft companies (but the option of using Hovertravel is only available on flows priced by SWR, Southeastern and Greater Anglia).

Meanwhile, CrossCountry don't set any fares at all to the Isle of Wight.

The combination of the above leads to a number of anomalies and issues, whereby:
  • there are no through fares at all for certain flows to the Isle of Wight (e.g. Banbury to Shanklin)
  • some flows only have the option of using Wightlink
  • some flows have a limited geographic choice of routes (because XC do not set through fares)
  • on some flows you may have difficulties using your ticket on either the ferry or the hovercraft - because neither is specified!
 

XAM2175

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I've seen the same "restriction" on some fares within Scotland - off the top of my head Glasgow C/QS to Paisley Gilmour St was the one on which I encountered it most.
 

alistairlees

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  • on some flows you may have difficulties using your ticket on either the ferry or the hovercraft - because neither is specified!
A ticket that does npt specify the route to the Isle of Wight is valid on Wightlink (Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde Pier Head), but not on the Hovercraft (Southsea Hoverport to Ryde Hoverport). There will be no difficulty using it in this way.
 

wellhouse

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I think some may be missing the point that both Slaithwaite and Guiseley are 200 miles north of The Isle Of Wight, and there would never be a conceivable Route anywhere near Southsea
 

30907

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I think some may be missing the point that both Slaithwaite and Guiseley are 200 miles north of The Isle Of Wight, and there would never be a conceivable Route anywhere near Southsea
No, IIRC that is the rationale!
If you have* to have an entry saying "Route Excludes: (=non-blank)" then Southsea Hoverport is a safe choice because (almost) all tickets that are actually valid that way to the IoW have a specific reference to Hovertravel in the routing.
*Don't ask me why this is so, and I agree it looks daft, but it was a workaround for something or other IIRC.
 

Paul Kelly

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BR Fares shows no restrictions for Slaithwaite-Guiseley, so can anyone explain why the TPE TVM at Huddersfield shows 'Route excludes Southsea Hoverport' ?
It's shown because it's in the electronic fares data as a restriction applying to "Any Permitted" fares. However BR Fares doesn't show this data as it is confusing and generally isn't applied by online journey planners either, so is quite irrelevant. My feeling is that the mandate to show it on TVMs etc. results from a misunderstanding.
 
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My feeling is that the mandate to show it on TVMs etc. results from a misunderstanding.
I'm sure that's right, I can't find it but I think I've seen a directive from RDG *not* to show this info, but only the route's full description, which is "Travel is allowed via any permitted route."
 

SickyNicky

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I'm sure that's right, I can't find it but I think I've seen a directive from RDG *not* to show this info, but only the route's full description, which is "Travel is allowed via any permitted route."
That is correct. You are not supposed to show the electronic information, just the textual stuff. It's actually an accreditation requirement and you have to provide proof that you're doing it correctly.
 

infobleep

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That is correct. You are not supposed to show the electronic information, just the textual stuff. It's actually an accreditation requirement and you have to provide proof that you're doing it correctly.
If it is an accreditation issue, surprised it's not been fixed yet.
 

SickyNicky

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If it is an accreditation issue, surprised it's not been fixed yet.
These systems only get accredited infrequently, so presumably it will be picked up at the next round. The test appeared on the most recent accreditation I've been involved in. I hadn't seen it before.
 

Bletchleyite

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No, IIRC that is the rationale!
If you have* to have an entry saying "Route Excludes: (=non-blank)" then Southsea Hoverport is a safe choice because (almost) all tickets that are actually valid that way to the IoW have a specific reference to Hovertravel in the routing.
*Don't ask me why this is so, and I agree it looks daft, but it was a workaround for something or other IIRC.

Southsea Hoverport is specifically chosen for the exact reason you state - to stop Any Permitted tickets generating an itinerary via the hovercraft. I guess there are too many of them to go through and set them all to route Ryde Pier Head or whatever.
 

Haywain

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Southsea Hoverport is specifically chosen for the exact reason you state - to stop Any Permitted tickets generating an itinerary via the hovercraft. I guess there are too many of them to go through and set them all to route Ryde Pier Head or whatever.
This is right, it used to be that case that journeys to Ryde Esplanade defaulted to the Hovercraft because it was quicker than the ferry, so the restriction will prevent that.
 

kieron

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From a quick perusal, it looks like on flows where GWR, GTR "Southern", GTR "Thameslink", EMR or Avanti are the fare setter, the fares are set generically - i.e. they do not specify the means of getting to the Isle of Wight, and have the same route as the equivalent flow to Portsmouth Stations.

However on flows where Southeastern, SWR, Chiltern, Greater Anglia or LNER are the fare setter, fares are routed on one of the two ferry/hovercraft companies (but the option of using Hovertravel is only available on flows priced by SWR, Southeastern and Greater Anglia).

Meanwhile, CrossCountry don't set any fares at all to the Isle of Wight.
Crosscountry set plenty of fares between Ryde and stations in Great Britain. They only set flexible tickets to places north of Banbury, though, and only set any tickets to Ryde Esplanade and Ryde St Johns Road on the Isle of Wight.

Southern fares are a bit odd, as they have flows like Chichester-Ryde Esplanade, which has (00981) "any permitted+Wightlink" tickets in that direction, but (01000) "." tickets the other way.

They don't really need Wightlink fares to mention the fact, as there are a couple of easements which stop (00000) "any permitted" tickets from being valid on Hovertravel. Easement 700534 prevents them from being valid via Southsea Hoverport, and easement 300326 does the same for Ryde Hoverport.

As the text of 300326 says the route must be "Hover Travel", I'd only try to use the hovercraft if the ticket said on it that I could, or if I had an itinerary.
 

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