Odd stopping patterns for late night/early morning services

[southern442]

Can anyone provide an explanation as to why several services in the early hours have such odd (almost random) stopping patterns?

For example, on my local TOC, Southern, has a service, the 2L00 Victoria to East Grinstead train, that has a very bizarre stopping pattern. It calls at Battersea Park (the only mainline train to call here AFAIK), then Clapham Junction as normal, before going via the Crystal Palace line, making stops at Streatham Hill and Norwood Junction, then stopping at East Croydon as normal, then making a stop at South Croydon, then fast to Oxted, then stopping as normal until East Grinstead. Does anyone know why this is? I could provide a few other examples, but I just wanted to give everyone the general idea. These services are normally found in the peaks going against the flow of traffic, but there are other examples in the very early hours. If anyone else has anymore examples then feel free to post them too.

 

[thenorthern]

A couple of First Transpennie Express and East Midlands Trains services stop at Chinley which I never understand why as its not a very big station and Chinley itself is quite small.

 

[louis97]

The Streatham Hill stop isn't a passenger stop, so I presume its something to do with the depot nearby, maybe to pick up staff. Maybe the Streatham Hill stop is a replacement for the Selhurst stops, which a few trains do (also not passenger calls).

 

[southern442]

Does anyone know of any other mainline trains to stop at Battersea park?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo & 2L77 2312 Waterloo to Basingstoke both traverse the East Putney line to/from Wimbledon for route knowledge purposes.

2D06 0458 Guildford to Waterloo is booked to call at Durnsford Road.

 

[southern442]

There's a train in the morning from Three Bridges to Victoria (I'm on my mobile so i cant post the link) that stops at every station (IIRC) on its way there.

 

[Techniquest]

2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo & 2L77 2312 Waterloo to Basingstoke both traverse the East Putney line to/from Wimbledon for route knowledge purposes.

2D06 0458 Guildford to Waterloo is booked to call at Durnsford Road.

Are these workings reliable for Point Pleasant? I haven't gone for it in years but if they're more reliable than the Strawberry Hill services I'll give it a go next time I'm down there I think.

 

[unlevel42]

A couple of First Transpennie Express and East Midlands Trains services stop at Chinley which I never understand why as its not a very big station and Chinley itself is quite small.

Is it to allow connections with the Hope Valley stoppers and New Mills Central and beyond.

 

[168lover]

There's a late night train on Sunday on the chiltern mainline that goes from Birmingham to London but is an all stopping train from Wycombe.

 

[Busaholic]

Aren't such services in the main to do with route knowledge but, in a small minority, also to do with not having to issue a closure notice on an established route?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Are these workings reliable for Point Pleasant? I haven't gone for it in years but if they're more reliable than the Strawberry Hill services I'll give it a go next time I'm down there I think.

Unless emergency engineering work or other issue intervenes, then yes.

2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo

2L77 2312 Waterloo - Basingstoke

 

[ctrh136]

Does anyone know of any other mainline trains to stop at Battersea park?

Not that I know of (apart from during engineering works). I don't think that 2L00 usually stops at Battersea Park, although I do agree it has a very weird stopping pattern.

The first Southern train from Brighton (2A11) does stop at Selhurst and Balham - I don't know of any other fast trains which stop at Balham.

Another oddity is that on Sundays the East Grinstead-Victoria services stop at Selhurst, but only in the London-bound direction. Does anyone know why this is?

 

[southern442]

Not that I know of (apart from during engineering works). I don't think that 2L00 usually stops at Battersea Park, although I do agree it has a very weird stopping pattern.

The first Southern train from Brighton (2A11) does stop at Selhurst and Balham - I don't know of any other fast trains which stop at Balham.

Another oddity is that on Sundays the East Grinstead-Victoria services stop at Selhurst, but only in the London-bound direction. Does anyone know why this is?

Also, why is it that a few early evening and late afternoon trains from London to East Grinstead stop at South Croydon?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I could say, but it would land me in trouble.

 

[ACBest]

In the East Midlands, on Monday to Saturdays the first Lincoln to Nottingham service, and the last Nottingham to Lincoln service (plus a few more on Sundays) call at both stations in Newark, which sees them do the following move...

AM: From Lincoln Central... Newark Crossing East Junction (up line) - Newark North Gate (Platform 3) [reverse] - Newark Crossing East Junction (down line) [reverse] - Newark Flat Crossing (up Nottingham line) - Newark Castle (Platform 1) ...to Nottingham.

PM: From Nottingham... Newark Castle (Platform 2) - Newark Flat Crossing (down Nottingham line) - Newark Crossing East Junction (down line) [reverse] - Newark North Gate (Platform 3) [reverse] - Newark Crossing East Junction (down line) ...to Lincoln Central.

This is, in short, to maintain ECML connections at Newark North Gate.

And the times/headcodes are...
Monday to Friday: 0526 ex LCN (2L50), 2226 ex NOT (2L91)
Saturday: 0526 ex LCN (2L50), 2026 ex LEI (2L87)
Sunday: 1500 ex LCN (2L50), 1836 ex NOT (2L81), 2100 ex LCN (2L74), 2228 ex NOT (2L91)

 

[Rapidash]

Not odd per se, but the 2020 EXD - PGN is a HST all stops. Takes bloody aaaaggggess if no one closes the doors behind 'em!It does get a brucey bonus for not being filled to the gunwales and letting me sneak a look at the refurb'd 1st class, though. (Looks very Tron-esqe in the pitch black....)

 

[hassaanhc]

Weekdays
The 2W13 0612 London Waterloo to Weymouth due 1009. Calls at Surbiton, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, Woking, then every single station to Weymouth!
The 1S08 0527 Woking to London Waterloo and 1S75 2252 London Waterloo to Woking are the only services of the day to use the spur from Addlestone to Byfleet & New Haw (and vice versa). The only direct services of the day between Byfleet & New Haw OR West Byfleet and Addlestone-Wandsworth Town and Queenstown Road inclusive. At other times a change is required at Weybridge.
The 1C50 1722 Reading to London Waterloo and 1C52 1753 Reading to London Waterloo. These call at Hounslow, Brentford and Putney instead of running the normal route via Twickenham and Richmond. Timings at Hounslow are 1826 and 1856, saving 10 minutes on the journey to Waterloo. The 1816 or 1846 stoppers from there arrive at Waterloo at the same time as these fasts!

 

[bunnahabhain]

A couple of First Transpennie Express and East Midlands Trains services stop at Chinley which I never understand why as its not a very big station and Chinley itself is quite small.

Because there is a sizeable population that use those trains, the two AM EMT services that call there usually pick up around 50 passengers.

 

[IanXC]

Many of these services are to maintain service levels at stations which are usually covered by services that don't run in the early morning/evening. A few examples near me:

TPE making 7 daily calls at South Milford:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=call&order=wtt&toc=TP

Or my favorite:
TPE's 1R93 1926 Cleethorpes to Sheffield
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34604/2014/10/20/advanced

Cleethorpes
Grimsby Town
Habrough
Barnetby
Scunthorpe
Doncaster
Conisbrough
Mexborough
Swinton
Rotherham Central
Meadowhall
Sheffield

(And that's not for route knowledge as other services are booked non stop via Rotherham Central).

 

[LBSCR Times]

Also, why is it that a few early evening and late afternoon trains from London to East Grinstead stop at South Croydon?

School kids!

 

[Strathclyder]

This service from Oban calls at Cardross, Singer, Maryhill & Possilpark & Parkhouse. It is the only West Highland Line service to call at these stations.

 

[Starmill]

Yes! Singer but not Dalmuir!

 

[Strathclyder]

Yes! Singer but not Dalmuir!

Why it does that, I've no idea. It was a convenient train for me though, as I used it to get to college on Thursday & Friday mornings.

 

[NSE]

School kids!

Yup, the Whitgift boys pack out those ones back towards Oxted way.

 

[12CSVT]

A couple of odiities on the WCML on a Saturday evening.

1914 Birmingham NS - Euston departs Milton Keynes at 2047 and calls at all stations to Watford Junction, except Bletchley and Berkhamstead.
This is followed by the 2050 Milton Keynes - Euston which skips Leighton Buzzard, Cheddington, Apsley and Kings Langley.
These two trains are booked to arrive at Euston seven minutes apart at 2146 and 2153.

Question is, why run them as two separate trains ?

 

[causton]

The 0135 last train from Kings Cross - Peterborough calls all stations Alexandra Palace - Potters Bar, providing the only link for these stations (except Alexandra Palace, with the Hertford North trains) to anywhere north of Welwyn Garden City.*

*IIRC, did double check and saw nothing!

On the other hand, the 0410 Welwyn Garden City - London Kings Cross does not stop at Welham Green to allow it to use the fast lines south of Marshmoor Crossover south of Hatfield.

 

[Starmill]

Because there is a sizeable population that use those trains, the two AM EMT services that call there usually pick up around 50 passengers.

I think a number of them are from neighboring Chapel-en-le-Frith, as it's station doesn't have any express services and is way up the side of a hill! Chinley town itself is very small. Off-peak, Chapel gets rather a better service too, so it's a strange one alright!

 

[Mark62]

The 07.28 Belper to Sheffield has always been an oddity to me? I remember this running as far back as the 1970s. And it always seemed to be an anomaly as it's always been the only direct train from belper to Sheffield. It's taken over 30 years to balance the working back from Sheffield in the evening. Apparently EMT are looking at stopping more Sheffield to London trains at belper.

 

[Boothby97]

(And that's not for route knowledge as other services are booked non stop via Rotherham Central).

Well only two (one of which is an ECS). This is what's shown for today http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...1/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP


TPE also serve the stops between Scunthorpe and Doncaster once a day.
The last arrival into Cleethorpes (0009) calls all stops http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G33755/2014/10/20/advanced
The first departure out of Cleethorpes calls all stops except Kirk Sandall http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34599/2014/10/21/advanced

Northern Rail provide a service on weekdays from Doncaster to Cleethorpes (in one direction only), having previously run as an ECS. This is the only Northern service between Scunthorpe and Barnetby. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y74213/2014/10/21/advanced
Calling pattern
Doncaster
Scunthorpe
Barnetby
Habrough
Stalingborough
Healing
Great Coates
Grimsby Town
Grimsby Docks
Cleethorpes

 

[otomous]

Dunno about the rest but the early Grinstead stops at Streatham Hill to drop drivers off to take trains out of the depot there. Norwood Junction is effectively a depot stop for Selhurst. It goes fast to Oxted because the peak traffic at that time of day is unlikely to be in that direction, but from Oxted there are early commuters going to Grinstead. The South Croydon stop is a bit of an anomaly to me; usually a handful of peak trains to and from Grinstead stop there to bolster the peak service, but only in the peak flow direction. That is, they stop there on up trains in the morning and down trains in the evening. So don't know why we have this one.