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Oddly routed fares

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transmanche

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Looking up fares from London to Shrewsbury, I noticed that SWT set Anytime and Off-Peak Return fares (and an Anytime Day Single) for a route via Salisbury & Warminster! To make this journey, NRE offers itineraries Waterloo-Salisbury-Newport-Shrewsbury; taking typically 5h30-6h.

It seems such an odd route to set a fare for, as it's not one that would occur to me in a month of Sundays. And I can't imagine that many are sold.

What other fares have you come across with similar with 'odd' routeings?
 
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sonic2009

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I believe these fares exist for when Wales & West ran a service from Manchester Piccadilly to London Waterloo via Warminster and obivously they haven't been removed.
 

yorkie

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Minster to Tilbury route: via Tilbury but not via ferry (EMT's website states that exact wording, but some SET staff claim the ticket has no validity west of Gravesend and that you must go via a ferry :lol:)
Horsforth to Filey route: Direct (this is, in fact, valid via Leeds or via Harrogate, and you can double-back to Scarborough)
Manchester to Sheffield route: Earlybird Not HS1 (would you like a HS1 supplement with that? ;))
 

barrykas

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Minster to Tilbury route: via Tilbury but not via ferry (EMT's website states that exact wording, but some SET staff claim the ticket has no validity west of Gravesend and that you must go via a ferry :lol:)

The bloke at c2c responsible for setting the fare claims the same (more specifically that you have to use the Gravesend - Tilbury ferry, but it's not included in the fare)...but can't think of a way of fitting that, and the lack of HS1 validity, into the 16 characters allowed. ;)

Answers on a postcard to...
 

Starmill

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I believe these fares exist for when Wales & West ran a service from Manchester Piccadilly to London Waterloo via Warminster and obivously they haven't been removed.

Whoa, really!? When did they do this!?
 

soil

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The Salisbury/Warminster routeings aren't that odd because they are basically set across swathes of the West, so you can get them to Bristol, but also Bridgend. Everywhere has one.

The Manchester - Sheffield fare is a season ticket fare and obviously the earlybird part is the key here - I guess the description was changed from Earlybird to Earlybird Not HS1 for the benefit of Southeastern, without checking where else it was used.
 

Swirlz

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Wrexham - London has a route via High Wycombe fare, but Chester doesn't...

There's some route codes that must be quite rare.

I'd swear I came across a Liverpool Stns fare to somewhere in the South West that was routed via Salisbury. Seems to be missing now though.

Shame you can't get a list of ALL ticket route codes from a specific code, (i.e. 0435).
 
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0B00

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Looking up fares from London to Shrewsbury, I noticed that SWT set Anytime and Off-Peak Return fares (and an Anytime Day Single) for a route via Salisbury & Warminster! To make this journey, NRE offers itineraries Waterloo-Salisbury-Newport-Shrewsbury; taking typically 5h30-6h.

It seems such an odd route to set a fare for, as it's not one that would occur to me in a month of Sundays. And I can't imagine that many are sold.

What other fares have you come across with similar with 'odd' routeings?

So what possibilities to exploit valid routes are there with this ticket !?
 

John @ home

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Wales & West ran a service from Manchester Piccadilly to London Waterloo via Warminster
When did they do this!?
British Rail ran a token domestic service from certain locations around the UK into Waterloo station using HSTs allowing connection with onward Eurostar service between May 1995 and January 1997 but these were ended at the time of privatisation. See Regional Eurostar services. After the HSTs ended, a DMU service from Manchester Piccadilly to London Waterloo via Warminster operated for a period.
 

bangor-toad

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Hi there,
The remnants of the old Manchester - London Waterloo services still live on.

There's still a three times daily London Waterloo - Salisbury - Warminster - Bristol Temple Meads service.
Obviously it terminates well short of where it used to but I still think it's a bit of an oddity in the otherwise fairly regular timetables. Mind you there are nearly always cheap Megabus fares available on this route so it's handy to know.

Cheers,
Jason
 

Sleepy

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:lol:Swimming is permitted lol
The bloke at c2c responsible for setting the fare claims the same (more specifically that you have to use the Gravesend - Tilbury ferry, but it's not included in the fare)...but can't think of a way of fitting that, and the lack of HS1 validity, into the 16 characters allowed. ;)

Answers on a postcard to...
 

soil

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Wrexham - London has a route via High Wycombe fare, but Chester doesn't...

There's some route codes that must be quite rare.

I'd swear I came across a Liverpool Stns fare to somewhere in the South West that was routed via Salisbury. Seems to be missing now though.

Shame you can't get a list of ALL ticket route codes from a specific code, (i.e. 0435).

Sure you can, here's a list of the codes from 0435:

ANY PERMITTED
AP ATW CT & CONN
AP EMT& CONNECT
AP LDN MID ONLY
AP SHREWSBURY
AP TPE & CONNECT
AP TPE ONLY
AP XC EMT & CONS
CAIRNRYAN STENA
CHESTFLD&EMT&CON
EC & CONNECTNS
EMIDSTRAINS.ONLY
FSHGRD STENA CIV
HLYHD IRISHF CIV
HLYHD STENA CIV
HLYHD SWIFT CIV
HOLYHD STENA SHP
LDN MIDLAND ONLY
LEEDS COACH
NOT VIA LONDON
PETERBORO & EC
RAILAIR READING
RAILAIR WTFD JCT
RAILR WF VT ONLY
SALISY NOT LONDN
VIA BANBURY
VIA BARROW-IN-FS
VIA BIRKENHEAD
VIA CARLISLE
VIA CHESTER
VIA CHESTERFIELD
VIA CREWE
VIA DUMFRIES
VIA HALIFAX
VIA HUDDERSFIELD
VIA LANCASTER
VIA LEEDS
VIA LLANELLI
VIA LONDON
VIA LONG BUCKBY
VIA MANCHESTER
VIA PRESTON
VIA SHEFFIELD
VIA SHREWSBURY
VIA SOUTHPORT
VIA STOCKPORT
VIA WARRINGTON
VIA WIGAN
VIRGIN TRNS ONLY
VIRGIN TRNSONLY
VWC & CONNECTNS
WATFORD NOT LOND
XC &CONNECTIONS

There are a few more specifically to 2246 (Liverpool Lime Street):

SN SWT & LM ONLY
SOUTHERN &LONMID
SOUTHERN&LON MID


The Salisbury tickets are

Cluster Q233 to/from Q390, i.e. the Merseyside cluster (around 40 stations in the Liverpool area) to Crewkerne.

plus
Cluster Q233 to/from Q206, which is the Merseyside cluster to Sherborne and Yeovil Junction.

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=0435&dest=CKN&rlc=

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=0435&dest=YVJ&rlc=

There is nothing odd about this routeing, as Yeovil Junction - Salisbury - Bristol - Birmingham - Liverpool is the shortest route.

It does give a neat illustration of the expanded fares check rule:

Yeovil Junction has routeing points Salisbury and Exeter, and the comparable fares are:

Salisbury:
SOS Via London £191
SVS Via London £109.60
SOS Not Via London £100
SVS Not Via London £96.70

Exeter routeing group stations:

SOS Any Permitted £121
SVS Any Permitted £117.90
SVS Via Hereford £96

Yeovil Junction
SOS Via London £203.50
SVS Via London £116.10
SOS Salisbury Not London £107.50

Fares check for 'Via London':
Salisbury: there is a Via London fare and the fare is a lower than the YVJ fare, so Salisburys is a valid routeing point
Exeter - there is no Via London fare, and there is not an 'Any Permitted' for both fares to compare. So we must compare the CHEAPEST fare for each:

For YVJ: SOS Salisbury Not London £107.50
For Exeter: SOS Any Permitted £121

and

For YVJ: SVS Via London: £107.50
For Exeter: SVS Via Hereford £96

Exeter is cheaper for the SVS, even though it costs more for an SOS, and therefore Exeter is a valid routeing point for a Liverpool Stations - Yeovil Junction Via London ticket of any kind.

Fares check for 'Salisbury Not London':

Salisbury - there is no Salisbury Not London fare for Salisbury, and there aren't both Any Permitted fares, so we compare the cheapest fare for each

Salisbury SVS Not Via London £96.70
YVJ SVS Via London £116.10

(these can be compared despite being mutually exclusive)

Salisbury SOS Not Via London £100
YVJ SOS Salisbury Not London £107.50

So Salisbury is a valid routeing point for Liverpool Stations - Yeovil Junction route 'Salisbury Not London'

Exeter - there is no comparable ticket type, and as per the working above, Exeter is a valid routeing point.


So permitted routes for Liverpool Stations to Yeovil Junction route Salisbury Not London, would include mapped routes from Liverpool Stations to Salisbury or Exeter that don't pass through London and do pass through Salisbury.

A route that is mapped to Exeter that fulfils the 'Salisbury Not London' condition is Liverpool - Birmingham - Reading - Basingstoke - Salisbury - Southampton - Weymouth - Yeovil Pen Mill - Castle Cary - Taunton - Exeter. This would obviously not be a valid route if Exeter wasn't a valid routeing point.
 

thedbdiboy

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The bloke at c2c responsible for setting the fare claims the same (more specifically that you have to use the Gravesend - Tilbury ferry, but it's not included in the fare)...but can't think of a way of fitting that, and the lack of HS1 validity, into the 16 characters allowed. ;)

Answers on a postcard to...

Its a good job that the new format ticket will allow descriptions of up to around 80 characters then!
 

Swirlz

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Sure you can, here's a list of the codes from 0435:

.

Thanks for that - just 3 appears to be missing.

00848 RAIL ONLY NO BUS [0435 - I375]
00380 ATW & RMS ONLY
00378 ATW & LM ONLY

An useful insight, so thanks again.

Cheers.
 

soil

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Yeah you're right, there are a few more:

AP XC ONLY CNM
AP XC ONLY LMS
AP XC ONLY WVH
ATW & LM ONLY
ATW & RMS ONLY
LIVPL STENA DAY
LVPL STENA NIGHT
NOT FOR TRAVEL
RAIL ONLY NO BUS
TPE ONLY
VIA HEREFORD
 

Swirlz

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Yeah you're right, there are a few more:

AP XC ONLY CNM
AP XC ONLY LMS
AP XC ONLY WVH
ATW & LM ONLY
ATW & RMS ONLY
LIVPL STENA DAY
LVPL STENA NIGHT
NOT FOR TRAVEL
RAIL ONLY NO BUS
TPE ONLY
VIA HEREFORD

Whats the NOT FOR TRAVEL one?
 

cjp

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The bloke at c2c responsible for setting the fare claims the same (more specifically that you have to use the Gravesend - Tilbury ferry, but it's not included in the fare)...but can't think of a way of fitting that, and the lack of HS1 validity, into the 16 characters allowed. ;)

Answers on a postcard to...
Perhaps via Tilbury but not via ferry = VIA TLBY & FERRY FARE XTRA
 

bb21

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Although of course still won't stop travel on Highspeed.

Just for you then. Change TILBY to NO HS. ;)

No, I am not proposing that this be implemented.
 

Paul Kelly

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Why does it matter whether the lack of validity on the ferry is shown on the ticket? That should be of no concern to Southeastern nor c2c: let the ferry company deal with any irate passengers expecting their ticket to be valid! There is nothing in the NRCoC that would make the ticket valid on the ferry anyway, so there is no need to waste any of the 16 precious characters reiterating this. The priority for the train companies should be making it clear that the ticket can't be used via London. "TILBURY NOT LOND" should do the job, I think.
 

Swirlz

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Why does it matter whether the lack of validity on the ferry is shown on the ticket? That should be of no concern to Southeastern nor c2c: let the ferry company deal with any irate passengers expecting their ticket to be valid! There is nothing in the NRCoC that would make the ticket valid on the ferry anyway, so there is no need to waste any of the 16 precious characters reiterating this. The priority for the train companies should be making it clear that the ticket can't be used via London. "TILBURY NOT LOND" should do the job, I think.

TILBURY NOT HS1

even
 
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