Off Peak Return Manchester - Fort William on Sleeper

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lyndhurst25

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Off Peak Return (SVR) Manchester to Fort William £109.80.

Restriction Code: 2T

Outward Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

Return Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

Am I right in thinking that this is valid on the northbound sleeper (with appropriate reservation / berth supplement) but only if I join that train at Crewe (2354) and not at Preston (0052)? If so it seems to be a silly restriction forcing you to take a longer route and departing from Manchester nearly an hour earlier than necessary.
 
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button_boxer

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I'm sure previous threads on here have concluded that a ticket dated for day X is valid on trains that depart up until 04:30 on day X+1 subject to the time restrictions of the previous day (the example being a CDR dated 6th June with a restriction code of "valid from 09:30", which would be OK on the 00:15 on 7th June, but the same ticket dated 7th June would not). The same argument applied to your example suggests you'd be fine to join at Preston.
 

wintonian

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These are effectively unrestricted off-peak tickets which used to be more common on log distance journeys.

Someone else will recall the history these tickets and their relationship to the previous saver ones better than me so I'll leave that to them.
 

bb21

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Off Peak Return (SVR) Manchester to Fort William £109.80.

Restriction Code: 2T

Outward Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

Return Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

Am I right in thinking that this is valid on the northbound sleeper (with appropriate reservation / berth supplement) but only if I join that train at Crewe (2354) and not at Preston (0052)? If so it seems to be a silly restriction forcing you to take a longer route and departing from Manchester nearly an hour earlier than necessary.

Assuming that it is a weekday, you would need a ticket dated the previous day in order to board the service at Preston, if the restriction text is interpretted literally.

You can continue your journey beyond 0430 as your journey cannot be completed on the first day (as shown on the ticket), however you must complete your journey by 0430 the following morning.
 

Oscar

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You can continue your journey beyond 0430 as your journey cannot be completed on the first day (as shown on the ticket), however you must complete your journey by 0430 the following morning.
What does this mean in practice? Of course this journey can be completed on the first day if the passenger choose a different connection. Does it mean if you start your journey before 0430 on Day 2 and cannot finish it before 0430 on Day 2 because of the time you have decided to set off, your ticket is valid until 0430 on Day 3?
 

bb21

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What does this mean in practice? Of course this journey can be completed on the first day if the passenger choose a different connection. Does it mean if you start your journey before 0430 on Day 2 and cannot finish it before 0430 on Day 2 because of the time you have decided to set off, your ticket is valid until 0430 on Day 3?

The outward portion of an SVR is valid for travel on the date printed, until 0430 the following day. If the journey cannot be completed on the first day, travel is permitted on the second day subject to the same time restrictions (if applicable, which is none as it will have been past 0415 in our Manchester - Fort William example), however all travel must be completed by 0430 on the third day.

The passenger may choose to start the journey at any time on the first day (up till 0430 on the second day).
 

Oscar

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Taking this literally, I would say that the journey can be completely on the first day (as opposed to Penzance - Wick) and therefore the ticket is not valid after 0430 on Day 2. Nowhere does it say "cannot be completely using the itinerary chosen". I appreciate that this is not what is meant though.
 

John @ home

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Taking this literally, I would say that the journey can be completely on the first day (as opposed to Penzance - Wick) and therefore the ticket is not valid after 0430 on Day 2.
Useful clarification on this matter was provided by thedbdiboy in the thread Revised NRCoC.
There is no intention to restrict use of off-peak tickets on Sleepers. In due course the relevant restriction codes will make this explicit but in the meantime overnight use will be allowed beyond 0429 on these services. I believe a note will be sent out to retail staff to clarify this. ...

The new rules simplify what had become a bit of a mess regarding overnight validity, and now make it clear that you can use them the next day if you can't complete your journey. It doesn't say you have to give reasons why you can't complete your journey. There is nothing to stop anyone breaking their journey at anytime the first day and resuming it the second day. The rule says 'if the journey cannot be reasonably completed on the first day' allowing for a very wide and sensible use of interpretation. The only requirement with off-peak/super off-peak tickets is that the journey is commenced on the first day. Believe it or not this is a genuine attempt to balance commercial requirments and passenger needs!

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=810888#post810888
Er, it is actually meant to be 0429 on the third day. This has been clarified in the follow up Q&A ... . No-one spotted the confusing wording during the proof reading :oops:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=814401#post814401
 

lyndhurst25

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Thanks. It's not very clear but I think that I am just about getting me head around it!

Another hypothetical question - Preston to Fort William off-peak returns have the same 2T restriction code. Are they be valid in the Sleeper departing at 0052? Likewise, would you need a ticket dated the day before? If so and I were to turn up to Preston station after midnight how could I buy a ticket with yesterday's date on it? (The booking office closes at 2200 but presumably there are TVMs. Not having a reservation would be another issue).
 

bb21

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Thanks. It's not very clear but I think that I am just about getting me head around it!

Another hypothetical question - Preston to Fort William off-peak returns have the same 2T restriction code. Are they be valid in the Sleeper departing at 0052? Likewise, would you need a ticket dated the day before?

If we interpret the rules literally, then the answer is "yes", although in reality what is enforced can be rather different.

If so and I were to turn up to Preston station after midnight how could I buy a ticket with yesterday's date on it? (The booking office closes at 2200 but presumably there are TVMs. Not having a reservation would be another issue).

You cannot buy a ticket dated the day before. You need to have bought the ticket before midnight.
 

wintonian

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I can't quite remember but I think we concluded in a previous thread that you could buy on-line before midnight and still collect the tickets from the TVM after midnight.
 
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