Off peak Stevenage to Elephant & Castle

[RailFanPercy]

Does anyone know why I cannot buy an offpeak return from Stevenage to Elephant and Castle online?

At the ticket office I can get one from Stevenage to Thameslink terminals for this route, but the only options on the NR and Thameslink ticketing sites are for Anytime or 2 x singles - both more expensive than the ticket I can get in person.

Many thanks.

 

[Watershed]

I can find it just fine on the Thameslink and Trainline websites, to name two. Should be available as an e-ticket as well if you want.

What dates are you searching for?

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone know why I cannot buy an offpeak return from Stevenage to Elephant and Castle online?

At the ticket office I can get one from Stevenage to Thameslink terminals for this route, but the only options on the NR and Thameslink ticketing sites are for Anytime or 2 x singles - both more expensive than the ticket I can get in person.

Many thanks.

I can find off-peak returns from £20.40 between Stevenage and Elephant & Castle briefly searching NRE; have you put in an off-peak time?

 

[RailFanPercy]

Looks like when I put in the return portion at an evening 'peak' time it only displays Anytime as avaliable. But I'm reading for the B1 restrictions, that this ticket is under, that there are no restrictions on the return time only that is it "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30" which should be fine for a return at 1800 for example. Am I unable to travel in the evening peak on a offpeak return, I've seemingly been fine to do it before?

 

[Wallsendmag]

On BR Fares there's this time restriction

Not valid to depart​

ELEPHANT AND CASTLE​

1620–1844​

on any TOC​

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Think @Wallsendmag has hit the nail on the head with this one.

Restriction is buried in the plethora of not really all that applicable detail mainly precluding peak hour travel via Reading and/or London Paddington on a ticket with a B1 restriction. (Not sure whether you would ever be going anywhere near those particular stations on a return journey to Stevenage from Elephant & Castle!)

 

[RailFanPercy]

Aha that seems to be it, many thanks! I wonder why it is there? Is it enforcable - being very much unadvertised? Presumably though I could start a return as a break further up the line within that same window of the evening peak?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Aha that seems to be it, many thanks! I wonder why it is there? Is it enforcable - being very much unadvertised? Presumably though I could start a return as a break further up the line within that same window of the evening peak?

Your ticket would most likely state "Validity B1 See Restrictions". Whilst possibly not immediately clear what that means, it does impose an obligation on the ticket holder, IMHO, to ascertain what the restrictions applicable might be.

Also doubtful if you could avoid the evening peak hour restrictions on the use of an Off Peak Day Return by joining at a nearby station, such as Loughborough Junction, as similar (albeit not identical) restrictions seem to apply when using the return portion of an off peak day return ticket from stations in the area back to Stevenage.

 

[yorkie]

Here is the detail of the Off Peak Return (SVR):

https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=SVG&dest=EPH&rte=790&tkt=SVR
Public restriction:

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30, except:

• 09:17 from Peterborough

Not valid on any services which are timed to depart London Kings Cross, London St Pancras International, Moorgate or pass through London St Pancras International after 17:29 and before 18:31, regardless of where you join or leave the service.

Electronic restrictions:

Return Journey​
Summary:​	VALID FROM 0930 WITH EVENING RESTRICTIONS​
Time Restrictions​
From​	Until​	Restriction(s) below apply on these days only:​
Wed 24 Mar 2021​	further notice​	Every Day​
Not valid to arrive​	LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET​	1635–1831​	on any TOC​
Not valid to arrive​	LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET​	1833–1834​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	any location​	0430–0930​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	WEST SUTTON​	1539–1812​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	SUTTON COMMON​	1541–1813​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	ST HELIER (SURREY)​	1544–1817​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	MORDEN SOUTH​	1546–1819​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	SOUTH MERTON​	1548–1821​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	WIMBLEDON CHASE​	1550–1823​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	WIMBLEDON​	1553–1826​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	HAYDONS ROAD​	1555–1828​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	TOOTING​	1558–1831​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	EAST CROYDON​	1602–1816​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	STREATHAM​	1603–1835​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	SUTTON LONDON​	1604–1807​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	TULSE HILL​	1607–1831​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	CARSHALTON​	1607–1904​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	HACKBRIDGE​	1609–1906​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	HERNE HILL​	1611–1836​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	MITCHAM JUNCTION​	1612–1909​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	LONDON BRIDGE​	1614–1843​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	LOUGHBOROUGH JUNCTION​	1615–1839​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	ELEPHANT AND CASTLE​	1620–1844​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	LONDON BLACKFRIARS​	1626–1851​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	CITY THAMESLINK​	1628–1853​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	FARRINGDON​	1628–1857​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET​	1629–1633​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	OLD STREET​	1637–1907​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	ESSEX ROAD​	1640–1910​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	FINSBURY PARK​	1641–1902​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	HIGHBURY & I UND​	1642–1902​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	HIGHBURY AND ISLINGTON​	1642–1902​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	KENTISH TOWN UND​	1644–1900​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	KENTISH TOWN​	1644–1900​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	DRAYTON PARK​	1644–1904​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	WEST HAMPSTD UND​	1648–1904​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	WEST HAMPSTEAD​	1648–1904​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	WEST HAMPSTEAD THAMESLINK​	1648–1904​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	MOORGATE UND​	1730–1830​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	LONDON ST PANCRAS​	1730–1830​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	MOORGATE​	1730–1830​	on any TOC​
Not valid to depart​	LONDON KINGS CROSS​	1730–1830​	on any TOC​
Train Easements Also unconditionally valid on the following trains:​
TL1372 0926 PETERBOROUGH to HORSHAM​	From 24 March 2021 until 23 April 2021 Mo Tu We Th Fr (THAMESLINK AND GT NORTHERN TL)​
TL1372 0926 PETERBOROUGH to HORSHAM​	From 26 April 2021 until 14 May 2021 Mo Tu We Th Fr (THAMESLINK AND GT NORTHERN TL)​

There is also an Off Peak Day Return (CDR) available:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

The CDR has no contractual public-facing evening peak restrictions whatsoever, but does have a list of restrictions which include Elephant & Castle (EPH).

Online booking sites are forced to adhere to the electronic restrictions, however if you find an itinerary that is valid as per the human-readable contractual restrictions, then the ticket may be used on such an itinerary, even if booking sites cannot offer it.

 

[Hadders]

A little confusion here over what ticket we're talking about here:

An Off Peak Return from Stevenage to London Thameslink (return portion valid for 1 month) has restriction code 5J which prohibits travel on the return portion where the train passes through St Pancras, Kings Cross or Moorgate between 17:29 and 18:31. This costs £32.50

There is an Off Peak Day Return costing £20.90 which carries restriction code B1. This has no evening peak restrictions (although don't expect the ticket to work barriers at stations in central London!)

First Capital Connect introduced evening peak restrictions in 2007 but a couple of years ago GTR changed things. What they did was rename the old Off Peak Day Return (which had the evening restrictions) as a Super Off Peak Day Return and introduced a new, slightly more expensive, Off Peak Day Return that has no evening restrictions. This was a sensible move in my opinion.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There is an Off Peak Day Return costing £20.90 which carries restriction code B1. This has no evening peak restrictions (although don't expect the ticket to work barriers at stations in central London!)

On BR Fares there's this time restriction

Not valid to depart​

ELEPHANT AND CASTLE​

1620–1844​

on any TOC​

Doesn't the B1 restriction on the Off Peak Day return preclude return travel at certain times as @Wallsendmag referenced?

 

[Hadders]

Doesn't the B1 restriction on the Off Peak Day return preclude return travel at certain times as @Wallsendmag referenced?

The B1 narrative says:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Return Travel​
Outward Travel​
RESTRICTIONS
Restriction Code: B1 Restricted Days: Mondays-Fridays​
Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30.
Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30.

There appears to be some erroneous restrictions in the electronic version of the restrictions as there are restrictions from Elephant & Castle and Moorgate but not from St Pancras, Kings Cross, Farringdon, City Thameslink or London Bridge. This cannot possibly be correct.

Perhaps someone from GTR might see this and get it fixed. Even better if someone could arrange for the gate line at Kings Cross to accept tickets with restriction code B1 in the evening peak.....

 

[Haywain]

Even better if someone could arrange for the gate line at Kings Cross to accept tickets with restriction code B1 in the evening peak...

That would also be down to GTR, as they control the gate logic.

 

[yorkie]

Doesn't the B1 restriction on the Off Peak Day return preclude return travel at certain times as @Wallsendmag referenced?

Electronically, yes.
Contractually, no.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So what's going on? Anomalies that actually favour the passenger invariably seem to be shut down very promptly; other way round it's not always the case.

 

[yorkie]

So what's going on? Anomalies that actually favour the passenger invariably seem to be shut down very promptly; other way round it's not always the case.

Absolutely correct.

 

[Hadders]

The ticket is valid in the evening peak, as I said upthread the evening restrictions in the electronic data are an error.

If the intention was to prohibit travel in the evening peak there would be restrictions in the electronic data from Kings Cross, St Pancras, London Bridge etc.

 

[A Challenge]

So what's going on? Anomalies that actually favour the passenger invariably seem to be shut down very promptly; other way round it's not always the case.

If the intention was to prohibit travel in the evening peak there would be restrictions in the electronic data from Kings Cross, St Pancras, London Bridge etc.

The cynic in me thinks that @Hadders may be able to predict what's happening in the future

 

[Hadders]

The cynic in me thinks that @Hadders may be able to predict what's happening in the future

Normally I’d expect restrictions to be imposed in the evening peak from St Pancras, Kings Cross, London Bridge etc, however I don’t think that will happen. Allow me to explain why.

Historically the Off Peak Day return had evening peak restrictions (introduced in 2007 by First Capital Connect)

In 2019 GTR made some passenger friendly changes. The former Odd Peak Day Return was renamed Super Off Peak Day Return, retaining the evening restrictions and same price. A new (slightly more expensive) Off Peak Day Return was introduced that had no evening restrictions.

This change happened across the northern part of the GTR network and is why I think the evening restrictions from Elephant & Castle in the electronic data are an error.