Off Peak Travel

[piccadilly]

I travelled from Honiton to Waterloo yesterday catching the 7.12 train - I was allowed to use my senior railcard.

Travelling back from Waterloo I was permitted to board the 17.20 train to Honiton - the station help desk explained that “there is no peak travel at this station at the moment”. I may have misheard.

I am confused ,as I thought that my travel times were peak periods,my ticket stated off peak and in addition I was allowed to save a third on the ticket price.

Is this correct? if so,I can start my journeys much earlier in the morning and travel home when I wish ,instead of hanging around the return stations until 19.00 awaiting the off peak start time.

Thank You.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I travelled from Honiton to Waterloo yesterday catching the 7.12 train - I was allowed to use my senior railcard.
Is this correct? if so,I can start my journeys much earlier in the morning and travel home when I wish ,instead of hanging around the return stations until 19.00 awaiting the off peak start time.

There are some exceptions allowed with a Senior Railcard, early morning departures for longer distance services being one of them. Peak restrictions vary by route, on some there are no evening ones. Best to check your proposed journey with the National Rail Enquiries to see what comes up.

 

[piccadilly]

Thank you for your prompt response and helpful reply.

In the past I have travelled from Baldock to Kings Cross and return but the 9.30 and 19.00 rules apply.

Much appreciated.

Kind Regards.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank you for your prompt response and helpful reply.

In the past I have travelled from Baldock to Kings Cross and return but the 9.30 and 19.00 rules apply.

Much appreciated.

Kind Regards.

What is and isn't 'off-peak' entirely depends on what the text of the restriction code for your ticket says. For example, an Off-Peak Return from Honiton to Waterloo (as well as its Day equivalent) has restriction code US. Looking this up (e.g. at nationalrail.co.uk/US), we see that the restriction relevant to your outbound journey is that you may not take a train that arrives into Waterloo or Clapham Junction between 04:30 and 09:59 (inclusive).

The return journey restriction is actually more lenient - you may not take a train that departs any London terminus between 04:30 and 09:29 (inclusive) - there are additional restrictions from Paddington though (which is not relevant here).

So for this reason, anyone holding a US-restricted ticket would be perfectly entitled to take any train from Waterloo during the evening rush-hour. This 'generosity' will not be down to the train company's goodwill but rather the fares regulation applying to them!

There are slightly cheaper Super Off-Peak Return tickets available from Honiton-Waterloo. However, for the sake of a few pounds less, you gain considerably greater arrival and departure restrictions - including significant evening restrictions - from restriction code BE. Not worth it in my opinion, unless you can be absolutely sure you can take a train during the allowed times.

There's also a Weekend Super Off-Peak Return, which has no time restrictions at all, by virtue of having an 8A restriction code. As the name suggests, however, it's only available and valid on weekends (possibly bank holidays too). The 8A restriction code also forbids break of journey on the outbound leg, though it's questionable whether this was intentional or not and whether or not it would be enforced (as technically you could be made to upgrade to the least expensive ticket that permitted break of journey if you were 'caught' breaking your journey!)

 

[yorkie]

I travelled from Honiton to Waterloo yesterday catching the 7.12 train - I was allowed to use my senior railcard.

Travelling back from Waterloo I was permitted to board the 17.20 train to Honiton - the station help desk explained that “there is no peak travel at this station at the moment”. I may have misheard.

I am confused ,as I thought that my travel times were peak periods,my ticket stated off peak and in addition I was allowed to save a third on the ticket price.

Is this correct? if so,I can start my journeys much earlier in the morning and travel home when I wish ,instead of hanging around the return stations until 19.00 awaiting the off peak start time.

Thank You.

An Off Peak Return (SVR) or Off Peak Day Return (CDR) for this journey is valid to depart Honiton at 07:12. You may use any train out of Waterloo on the return (note that if you went from Paddington, some trains would not be valid on your ticket).

If you wish to travel from Honiton earlier, it'll cost a lot of money if you just wanted to go to London as you would need to use an undiscounted Anytime ticket. It would be cheaper to go to somewhere like Ipswich.

 

[yorkie]

Thank you for your prompt response and helpful reply.

In the past I have travelled from Baldock to Kings Cross and return but the 9.30 and 19.00 rules apply.

Much appreciated.

Kind Regards.

A Baldock to London Off Peak Day Return (CDR) is valid on the 0926 from Baldock, or any later train. You may not use trains timed to depart London King's Cross between 1630 and 1901.

The routes are priced very differently; there is no blanket rule for ticket restrictions. There are several hundred different restrictions!

 

[piccadilly]

Thank you.What you say corresponds with my experience.If I wish to travel peak on the return journey I have to pay a supplement at the KX ticket office.This can vary however!

Another journey I regularly make is Honiton to Warrington - my understanding is that the earliest train I can use my railcard is 10.16. Although the 7.12 would be preferable.For the return journey the earliest is 09.39.

I am sorry “Fortheloveof” if I have not understood your excellent description above! But it is very useful for me to travel earlier.

“The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax” Albert Einstein - surely he meant UK railway timetables.

 

[Hadders]

Another journey I regularly make is Honiton to Warrington - my understanding is that the earliest train I can use my railcard is 10.16. Although the 7.12 would be preferable.For the return journey the earliest is 09.39.

If travelling from Honiton - Warrington via London you may take any train between Honiton and London. The restrictions apply only to the trains you take between London and Warrington and v.v.

 

[piccadilly]

Thank You.I usually travel to Warrington via Exeter and Birmingham.

 

[Hadders]

Thank You.I usually travel to Warrington via Exeter and Birmingham.

If using an Off Peak Return routed 'not Via London' then you cannot travel before 0930.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank You.I usually travel to Warrington via Exeter and Birmingham.

In that case, you would probably be using the 'not via London' ticket. In this case, the Off-Peak restriction code is 2V, which means you cannot take any train scheduled to depart between 04:30 and 09:29 (inclusive). Your railcard may have further restrictions, depending on which one you have. Only the Disabled railcard is completely unrestricted.

Incidentally, splitting at Bristol Parkway and obtaining Off-Peak Returns to/from there saves you £20.90 (22%) over the through fare, and there are further savings to be had if you can tie yourself to a specific train for part or all of your journey. Since all trains stop at Bristol Parkway when you go via that route, you gain/lose no flexibility this way (unless you decided you wanted to go via London, in which case you no longer have the option to zero-excess the through ticket to 'via London').

 

[Haywain]

Another journey I regularly make is Honiton to Warrington - my understanding is that the earliest train I can use my railcard is 10.16. Although the 7.12 would be preferable.For the return journey the earliest is 09.39.

The time that you can use your railcard and the time you can use an Off Peak ticket are not necessarily the same. Within the Network Railcard area a Senior Railcard cannot be used before Off Peak Day tickets are valid - this governs your journey to London. For other journeys, such as that to Warrington, there is no time restriction on the use of the railcard but Off Peak tickets will have their own time restrictions - these will vary depending on the journey to be made.

 

[piccadilly]

Thank You “ForTheLoveOf”

You know your train journey’s!

I have just checked - by buying a return from Honiton to Bristol Parkway,and a return from Bristol Parkway to Warrington the total price is £72.65.

If I buy a return from Honiton to Warrington the cost is £93.55.

A saving of £20.90.

I have two questions

1) Can I buy both tickets at Honiton?
2) Do I have to get off the train at Bristol Parkway?

Kind Regards

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank You “ForTheLoveOf”

You know your train journey’s!

I have just checked - by buying a return from Honiton to Bristol Parkway,and a return from Bristol Parkway to Warrington the total price is £72.65.

If I buy a return from Honiton to Warrington the cost is £93.55.

A saving of £20.90.

I have two questions

1) Can I buy both tickets at Honiton?
2) Do I have to get off the train at Bristol Parkway?

Kind Regards

You're welcome!

1) You should be able to buy them at any ticket office which offers the full range of tickets. If Honiton has such a ticket office (i.e. not just one that sells tickets to or from Honiton), then you should be able to buy it there. Alternatively, you can buy the two tickets in one transaction via a variety of different online retailers (I recommend TransPennine Express - tpexpress.co.uk - as they offer fee-free ticket changes, even on Advances). You would then either get the tickets posted to you (tpexpress.co.uk does this for free) or you would pick them up at a FastTicket/"Ticket On Departure" machine at any of the stations with this facility - such as Honiton.

2) Condition 14.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel states:

Unless shown below, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.

Because all trains along the route via Exeter and Birmingham stop at Bristol Parkway, you are fine to remain on the train and do not need to get off. If you are delayed, all of your tickets should be considered together for the purposes of any claim for delay compensation. The circumstances "below" refer only to where you wish to take a train that doesn't stop at your ticket-changeover station, or if your ticket specifically restricts this kind of splitting - most regular tickets don't, it tends to be only local authority/passenger transport executive tickets that might.

Also, as I alluded to in my previous post - if you can accept being tied to a specific train for part or all of your journey, using one or more Advances could deliver a further 10-20% saving over my suggested Off-Peak ticket split, depending on how far in advance you book and how busy the trains on the day you book are. If you need advice as to which Advances to choose, or where to split, feel free to ask here.

Hope that helps!

 

[piccadilly]

Yes that is very helpful - so far you have saved me £240 per year!

I will explore your other suggestion later - by looking at the Transpennine website and trying a few options - sometimes though I only decide on the day before travel or even on the day itself.

Kind Regards.

 

[piccadilly]

An Off Peak Return (SVR) or Off Peak Day Return (CDR) for this journey is valid to depart Honiton at 07:12. You may use any train out of Waterloo on the return (note that if you went from Paddington, some trains would not be valid on your ticket).

If you wish to travel from Honiton earlier, it'll cost a lot of money if you just wanted to go to London as you would need to use an undiscounted Anytime ticket. It would be cheaper to go to somewhere like Ipswich.

Thank You.

I find it strange that there was no peak/off peak restrictions at Waterloo at 17.20. The station however was not as busy at that time as Kings Cross or Euston is.

 

[swt_passenger]

I find it strange that there was no peak/off peak restrictions at Waterloo at 17.20. The station however was not as busy at that time as Kings Cross or Euston is.

The former Southern Region never felt the need to bring in an afternoon peak restriction in the way it was done on routes out of Kings Cross, and IIRC this goes way back to the 1970s - from experience of Friday afternoon travel from Hampshire to the Northeast...

It’s probably a good example of why anyone making an unfamiliar journey should never assume that any restrictions are the same all over...

 

[piccadilly]

This is interesting to note - sometimes however I will need to travel from Paddington where I believe there are peak time restrictions or is this Southern region?

 

[swt_passenger]

This is interesting to note - sometimes however I will need to travel from Paddington where I believe there are peak time restrictions or is this Southern region?

Paddington would be Western Region, and they always did things differently as a matter of course...