Old eurostar platforms at waterloo

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bailey65

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Have swt and network rail come up with any concrete plans for the old eurostar platforms at waterloo yet i would have thought this extra capacity would be urgently needed as soon as possible.
 
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Crossover

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I was having a gander at what I think are the old platforms and nothing much seems to be happening there. Is platform 20 (I think) one of the old Eurostar ones and is it used in times of disruption and such as there are gates off the adjoining passenger platform?
 

wintonian

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20 I belive has been converted to domestic use.

But otherwise I think the current and foreseeable plans are to continue spend £1 million per year maintaining them in their current state.

It occasionally gets talked about but no-one seems brave enough to come of with a price for sorting them out along with the really pricy bit – the throat.

and without sorting Clapham Junction out was well the benefits would be limited so cost wise to make a strong business case the sky and somewhere arround earths orbit is probably the limit.
 

Chris125

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IMO people get a little too carried away when they see the old Eurostar platforms - there just isnt enough capacity or demand on the Windsor Lines to justify using them all, so they might as well be left mothballed until a viable scheme to increase capacity needs them.

...which is unlikely to be anytime soon im afraid, as its surburban services operating into the southern side of Waterloo that apparently have the greatest need for more, longer platforms.

Chris
 

mark46245

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It's obviously too simple just to move everyone up a couple of platforms and run the Reading line out of the Eurostar platforms instead of 19.
 

wintonian

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IMO people get a little too carried away when they see the old Eurostar platforms - there just isnt enough capacity or demand on the Windsor Lines to justify using them all, so they might as well be left mothballed until a viable scheme to increase capacity needs them.

...which is unlikely to be anytime soon im afraid, as its surburban services operating into the southern side of Waterloo that apparently have the greatest need for more, longer platforms.

Chris
But most people who use Waterloo don't understand that they seem to think that any train can use any platform, and tend to get rather depressed and start questioning the competence of senior railway management (correct, they also don't care whether it is NR, a TOC of the DfT who's to blame) when they are stuck outside waterloo waiting for a free platform and can see 4 very empty ones.

It's obviously too simple just to move everyone up a couple of platforms and run the Reading line out of the Eurostar platforms instead of 19.

Welcome :D, - nice idea there but unfortunately that is far too simple.

In order to do that the entire throat and line between Clapham Junction and Waterloo needs to be redesigned I belive, a very very costly bluisness.

If you want to know the ins and out you’ll need to wait for a Network Rail bod (or someone else very knowledgeable) to answer that as I haven't got a clue. :)
 

WillPS

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Okay - so if it's going to be decades before it can be used as a railway station, would it not be an idea to agree a 10-20 year lease with a supermarket? Far too good an asset to spend £1m/year mothballed indefinitely.
 

Chris125

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Okay - so if it's going to be decades before it can be used as a railway station, would it not be an idea to agree a 10-20 year lease with a supermarket? Far too good an asset to spend £1m/year mothballed indefinitely.
It will be used as a station, but only one of the platforms will see trains for the forseeable future.

Chris
 

wintonian

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One of the ideas floated is to turn the Eurostar concourse and undercroft into a shopping mall.

No not decades, but but the government might have started planning HS3 by then.

We do need the capacity fairly urgently though, but I doubt we will get it quick enough possibly with people struggling to find seat on the fasts outside of the peaks if growth continues.

Of course this is just me pessimistically speculating when no-one really knows, but I understand it is something NR want to do, given the cash.
 

Barclay

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It's all tied up to the redevelopment of Elizabeth house, the 1960s office block alongside Waterloo. Once planning is obtained for the site, they will bring international back into use.

I agree the current situation is ridiculous though. I think international and the Linford Street viaduct should be used to divert some Victoria services into Waterloo. If capacity was freed up at Victoria, you could operate a Victoria to Battersea shuttle which would remove the need for the expensive Northern line extension.
 

cle

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It's a shame the high level walkway to the South Bank will be going.

I can't think of that many good uses for it - perhaps sleeper trains leaving very late for the Continent - but then their morning arrivals clog up peak paths so that's a problem.

What's the latest with BAA's revised Airtrack-lite plans - i.e. just to Waterloo, no western link.
 

starrymarkb

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I agree the current situation is ridiculous though. I think international and the Linford Street viaduct should be used to divert some Victoria services into Waterloo. If capacity was freed up at Victoria, you could operate a Victoria to Battersea shuttle which would remove the need for the expensive Northern line extension.
Problem is access to Waterloo International from the Flyover is pretty much single track through Vauxhall - fine for a couple of E*s per hour but not for a more intensive Victoria service
 

Barclay

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Problem is access to Waterloo International from the Flyover is pretty much single track through Vauxhall - fine for a couple of E*s per hour but not for a more intensive Victoria service
Good point. Perhaps as part of the redevelopment of Nine Elms, developers should have to contribute to a widening of the viaduct through Vauxhall rather than to the Northern line extension?

With limited demoltions in the Vauxhall station area (mainly the brick self-storage warehouse on Bondway, immediately adjacent to the tracks?) it should still be possible to construct a widened viaduct at the moment.

Any such proposal would have to be tabled quickly though, Vauxhall and Nine Elms are rapidly being targetted by developers seeking to put up skyscrapers!
 

swt_passenger

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IMO people get a little too carried away when they see the old Eurostar platforms - there just isnt enough capacity or demand on the Windsor Lines to justify using them all, so they might as well be left mothballed until a viable scheme to increase capacity needs them.

...which is unlikely to be anytime soon im afraid, as its surburban services operating into the southern side of Waterloo that apparently have the greatest need for more, longer platforms.
NR's published plans for the southern side of the station assume that platforms 1 and 2 cannot be lengthened for the 10 car main suburban lengthening, (Wimbledon routes) so they intend to close them and move all the normal station usage over by two platforms. That will take up at least 3 of the former Eurostar platforms, including P20 which is already planned to be used for aditional Windsor side peak trains from 2013 some time. It will also require a lot of work to replicate the current routes across the station throat into the platforms from the various lines.
 

LE Greys

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I'd suggest using it to divert some services from the Chatham side of Victoria, since that badly needs sorting out to allow 12-car trains into all platforms, then do their level best to sort out access to it. If that means demolishing the flyover, demolish it. It's hardly used these days anyway. Also, what about reopening the old Eurostar facilities for domestic use? It would do something about that under-capacity booking office if a new travel centre were to open downstairs.
 

Chris125

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Good point. Perhaps as part of the redevelopment of Nine Elms, developers should have to contribute to a widening of the viaduct through Vauxhall rather than to the Northern line extension?
There are quite a few ways to provide more capacity in theory, but i doubt many would be economically viable especially with all the other work required - personally im hoping Crossrail 2, whose latest plans might involve taking over some of the inner-suburban routes, might solve at least some of the capacity issues.

Chris
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Thats what WE suggested in the last waterloo thread. Fact and what we suggest are two VERY VERY different things. Remember that.
I overheard what you suggested. That's where I got mixed up.

Mind me though but it would be a good idea, are there any other things we can do with the platforms not mentioned yet?
 

MidnightFlyer

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It was part of building High Speed 1. It allows a much shorter journey time to / from Paris et al (see what I did there ;)), as it now has its own dedicated high speed route: when it ran into Waterloo, it ran on 'normal' NR tracks for 20-30 miles into / out of London, and that slowed it considerably.
 

Rational Plan

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NR's published plans for the southern side of the station assume that platforms 1 and 2 cannot be lengthened for the 10 car main suburban lengthening, (Wimbledon routes) so they intend to close them and move all the normal station usage over by two platforms. That will take up at least 3 of the former Eurostar platforms, including P20 which is already planned to be used for aditional Windsor side peak trains from 2013 some time. It will also require a lot of work to replicate the current routes across the station throat into the platforms from the various lines.
If I remember the line between Clapham Junction and Waterloo is due for resignalling in the early 2020's. So I imagine Network rail will redo the station throat at the same time. That is also the time frame talked about sorting out the platforms at Clapham Junction, so more expresses can stop.
 

ainsworth74

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But I read about a proposal to do just that in Rail magazine...
Wasn't that Peter Mugridge's article on Sleepers? In which case that was a proposal from an enthusiast that was mostly aimed at starting a debate about the future direction of sleeper services. Not anything official.
 

Lrd

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Wasn't that Peter Mugridge's article on Sleepers? In which case that was a proposal from an enthusiast that was mostly aimed at starting a debate about the future direction of sleeper services. Not anything official.
Don't think so, think Peter was talking about new rolling stock for the sleepers, think they still ran to their current route.
 

HSTEd

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Wouldn't most of the work neccesary to make the sleepers fit in at Waterloo Int have to be done anyway for them to be brought back into service?
Even if they only get to use it for five or so years it would be a nice interim solution while we work out an alternative.
 

CP165

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Wasn't that Peter Mugridge's article on Sleepers? In which case that was a proposal from an enthusiast that was mostly aimed at starting a debate about the future direction of sleeper services. Not anything official.
No sorry it wasn't in Rail it was in Modern Railways, my mistake!

Page 14 of the February issue. The article states that the platforms could be used to accomodate domestic sleepers (ie. Caledonian sleeper and possibly the Night Riviera), apparently raising the possibility of a sleeper mini-franchise. It is a plan currently under consideration.

I think it's an excellent idea, with the MkIIs being replaced with MkIIIs there won't be enough platfrom accomodation at Euston, let alone the reconstuction for high speed 2.

It could also mean that passengers will be able sleep in as there will be no urgent requirement for the platform to be used soon after the train arrives.
 

DynamicSpirit

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I often wonder if anyone ever thought of turning some of the trains at Waterloo into through services building a line through to Waterloo East to run trains on to London Bridge and out to the South-East. Would involve a massive rebuild work at Waterloo, but the way it would transform travel opportunities would be incredible - and it'd ease a lot of congestion problems too (both from trains trying to cross over lines to get to Platforms, and passengers who would no longer need to change at Waterloo). Would also mean you'd need fewer platforms at London Bridge as there'd be basically no need for any trains to terminate there - just about everything coming into the station from the SE could carry on either to Thameslink or on to the Waterloo line.

Would've been a lot easier to propose before the current rebuilding effort at London Bridge and the new shopping complex underway at Waterloo though.
 
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