Old Oak Common HS2 Railway Station

[city dweller]

They are coming thick and fast now.

Planning applications for Old Oak Common station...

20/0012/HS2OPDC http://planningregister.opdc.london...arch%20Criteria%3C%2Fa%3E'>Search Results</a>

Some others in the same vicinity: (inc. realignment of Old Oak Common Lane and bridges for GWML & Central Line)

20/0011/HS2OPDC http://planningregister.opdc.london...arch%20Criteria%3C%2Fa%3E'>Search Results</a>
20/0013/HS2OPDC http://planningregister.opdc.london...arch%20Criteria%3C%2Fa%3E'>Search Results</a>

 

[Spod]

Those looking for the glossy brochure will find it in the design and access statement.
Part 1: (intro and external stuff) http://planningregister.opdc.london.gov.uk/swift/MediaTemp/9397-1396789481.pdf
Part 2: (internal design) http://planningregister.opdc.london.gov.uk/swift/MediaTemp/9397-1396789480.pdf
Part 3: (other aspects like energy, accessibility and surroundings) http://planningregister.opdc.london.gov.uk/swift/MediaTemp/9397-1396789479.pdf
Interesting read - thanks city dweller!

 

[Eddd]

Interesting. Some observations and things I hadn't realised:

• It's huge and I struggle to imagine it looking as busy as the renders suggest because people won't be hanging around for long
• The HS2 station will be completely enclosed - I was imagining something more like Stratford HS1
• Overground stations are still planned but you'll have to find your own way to them - in the case of the West London Line, across an exposed and speculative bridge

 

[city dweller]

Couple of images that give the basic layout

 

[Maurice3000]

Interesting. Some observations and things I hadn't realised:

• Overground stations are still planned but you'll have to find your own way to them - in the case of the West London Line, across an exposed and speculative bridge

It's a shame that Willesden Junction is just a tad too far away. Now they have to build two stations, one for each Overground branch. If a better connection with W. Jct was possible you'd have easy interchange with both those Overground branches, the Watford - Euston line and the Bakerloo line.

 

[Snow1964]

Excuse my ignorance, but why 6 high speed platforms, I could understand two pairs of Islands with trains alternating sides to allow time for boarding and alighting.

But what are other 2 platforms for, or do some trains terminate here, and if so which ones

 

[hwl]

Excuse my ignorance, but why 6 high speed platforms, I could understand two pairs of Islands with trains alternating sides to allow time for boarding and alighting.

But what are other 2 platforms for, or do some trains terminate here, and if so which ones

Given the frequency, dwell times and most importantly headway at HS operating speeds 3 platforms rather than 2 per direction are needed unlike the metro type service case.

 

[deltic]

Excuse my ignorance, but why 6 high speed platforms, I could understand two pairs of Islands with trains alternating sides to allow time for boarding and alighting.

But what are other 2 platforms for, or do some trains terminate here, and if so which ones

It was originally proposed to be a 6 platform station as 2 platforms would be for international services given requirements to separate international and domestic passengers - its not clear why they havent got rid of two platforms given the pressure to reduce costs.

 

[D365]

It was originally proposed to be a 6 platform station as 2 platforms would be for international services given requirements to separate international and domestic passengers - its not clear why they havent got rid of two platforms given the pressure to reduce costs.

Providing two extra platforms now is far, far cheaper than realising later that four platforms might be too few!

 

[The_Train]

Providing two extra platforms now is far, far cheaper than realising later that four platforms might be too few!

This is exactly what I was going to put. How many times do we say 'if only they'd done xx when they built it'. It's about time we started to think ahead instead of just in the here and now

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

This is exactly what I was going to put. How many times do we say 'if only they'd done xx when they built it'. It's about time we started to think ahead instead of just in the here and now

they did it with Curzon Street. The plan was 7 platforms then it was cut to 6 when the link to hs1 was scrapped but then they readded platform 7 back in a few years ago for extra capacity again future proofing. Old oak common was planned to have 6 platforms for hs2 and even when the hs1 link was scrapped they kept it for extra capacity and future proofing should the hs1 link ever be built.

 

[kevin_roche]

they did it with Curzon Street. The plan was 7 platforms then it was cut to 6 when the link to hs1 was scrapped but then they readded platform 7 back in a few years ago for extra capacity again future proofing. Old oak common was planned to have 6 platforms for hs2 and even when the hs1 link was scrapped they kept it for extra capacity and future proofing should the hs1 link ever be built.

I'm hoping that one day they will see the error of their ways and find some way to join HS1 and HS2 so that trains can run from Birmingham through the Channel Tunnel.

Personally I like the suggestion from Buro Happold. Its a great pity it came too late to be of use.

An updated version of the Cross City Connect (CCC) plans would see a 30km twin bored tunnel link Old Oak Common (OOC) in the west to a portal junction with HS1 at Rainham in the east of the city.

The project’s backers have said the new plan would save billions on the HS2 budget and would see a vast new underground station constructed at Waterloo and Southwark titled South Bank Central.

 

[Eddd]

As mentioned in the other thread, a spare platform could be useful to dump faulty stock.

Would also be handy for railtours, I wonder if there is provision for run-around movements!

 

[Maurice3000]

I'm hoping that one day they will see the error of their ways and find some way to join HS1 and HS2 so that trains can run from Birmingham through the Channel Tunnel.

Personally I like the suggestion from Buro Happold. Its a great pity it came too late to be of use.

I'm not that convinced that Waterloo is such a great place for it, I'd probably rather see it at Farringdon. Great interchange with Crossrail (again), Tube and Thameslink.

Anyway, if you ask me the greatest blunder is putting Birmingham on a spur. It would have greatly benefited Birmingham if it was ON the actual High Speed line instead of OFF it. In the current plans there is a high speed connection from London to Birmingham but still no connection to Birmingham from Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield etc. It would be great for Birmingham (and would pay itself back in stimulating Birmingham's economy) if every single train between the south and the north would stop in Birmingham city centre.

Take a leaf out of Antwerp's book where they put the high speed line underneath the existing central station so every high speed train on the line Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Antwerp, Brussels, Paris stops in Antwerp's city centre.

It's a shame that the UK is so addicted to building terminal stations when there is zero excuse for one.

 

[hwl]

I'm not that convinced that Waterloo is such a great place for it, I'd probably rather see it at Farringdon. Great interchange with Crossrail (again), Tube and Thameslink.

Anyway, if you ask me the greatest blunder is putting Birmingham on a spur. It would have greatly benefited Birmingham if it was ON the actual High Speed line instead of OFF it. In the current plans there is a high speed connection from London to Birmingham but still no connection to Birmingham from Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield etc. It would be great for Birmingham (and would pay itself back in stimulating Birmingham's economy) if every single train between the south and the north would stop in Birmingham city centre.

Take a leaf out of Antwerp's book where they put the high speed line underneath the existing central station so every high speed train on the line Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Antwerp, Brussels, Paris stops in Antwerp's city centre.

It's a shame that the UK is so addicted to building terminal stations when there is zero excuse for one.

The Farringdon geology is *very bad*

The Birmingham spur is also connected northwards... with plenty of capacity available.

 

[JamesT]

I'm not that convinced that Waterloo is such a great place for it, I'd probably rather see it at Farringdon. Great interchange with Crossrail (again), Tube and Thameslink.

Anyway, if you ask me the greatest blunder is putting Birmingham on a spur. It would have greatly benefited Birmingham if it was ON the actual High Speed line instead of OFF it. In the current plans there is a high speed connection from London to Birmingham but still no connection to Birmingham from Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield etc. It would be great for Birmingham (and would pay itself back in stimulating Birmingham's economy) if every single train between the south and the north would stop in Birmingham city centre.

Take a leaf out of Antwerp's book where they put the high speed line underneath the existing central station so every high speed train on the line Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Antwerp, Brussels, Paris stops in Antwerp's city centre.

It's a shame that the UK is so addicted to building terminal stations when there is zero excuse for one.

There's not a Curzon Street to Liverpool service listed, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2#Proposed_service_pattern has direct services to Manchester and Sheffield amongst others come Phase 2.

 

[The Planner]

Anyway, if you ask me the greatest blunder is putting Birmingham on a spur. It would have greatly benefited Birmingham if it was ON the actual High Speed line instead of OFF it. In the current plans there is a high speed connection from London to Birmingham but still no connection to Birmingham from Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield etc. It would be great for Birmingham (and would pay itself back in stimulating Birmingham's economy) if every single train between the south and the north would stop in Birmingham city centre.

Go check a HS2 map, you can access Curzon St from both the north west/north east and the south via the delta junction at Water Orton.

 

[si404]

It would be great for Birmingham (and would pay itself back in stimulating Birmingham's economy) if every single train between the south and the north would stop in Birmingham city centre.

Costs:

• much reduced time savings between London and the North
• massive financial outlay
• a lot of destruction in Central Birmingham

Benefits*:

• an overkill frequency between London and Birmingham that would only be bettered by Gatwick and Reading.
• Oxenholme and Penrith see direct high-speed services to London
• Liverpool, Runcorn, Stafford, Stoke and Macclesfield see high-speed services to central Birmingham
• relatively minor frequency boosts to Birmingham/London for everywhere else

*I'm assuming the standard 17tph service pattern and simply rerouting via Birmingham and extending the 3 Birmingham trains 1 each to Scotland, Manchester and Newcastle. I'm ditching some portions like York and Lancaster due to connecting those Birmingham terminating trains through, ditto the idea that the Scottish trains could split at Carlisle rather than Carstairs.
2tph London-Birmingham-Crewe-Runcorn-Liverpool
2tph London-Birmingham-Preston-Carstairs (split)-Glasgow/Edinburgh
1tph London-Birmingham-Crewe-Warrington-Wigan-Preston-Lancaster-Oxenholme-Penrith-Carlisle-Glasgow/Edinburgh (1t2ph each)
1tph London-Birmingham-Stafford-Stoke-Macclesfield
4tph London-Birmingham-Manchester
2tph London-Birmingham-Toton-Sheffield
2tph London-Birmingham-Toton-Leeds
2tph London-Birmingham-York-Darlington-Newcastle
1tph London-Birmingham-Toton-Sheffield-York-Darlington-Durham-Newcastle

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

Would also be handy for railtours, I wonder if there is provision for run-around movements!

LOL - yeah and a turntable & some water troughs!

 

[deltic]

I'm hoping that one day they will see the error of their ways and find some way to join HS1 and HS2 so that trains can run from Birmingham through the Channel Tunnel.

Personally I like the suggestion from Buro Happold. Its a great pity it came too late to be of use.

Not sure how building a huge underground station at Waterloo would save £bns. All the London station options were looked at in some detail at the early planning stage. There is no point connecting HS2 to HS1 until the UK changes its rules on international and domestic passengers on the same train which I cant see happening for a very long time if at all post Brexit.

 

[si404]

There is no point connecting HS2 to HS1 until the UK changes its rules on international and domestic passengers on the same train

And even then there's still no point as changing between a full range of Northern destinations at Euston and Kentish/Continental ones at St Pancras is going to be better than a relatively low frequency service that avoids central London and only serves a couple of destinations at either end and has to stop everywhere in to serve the many areas they don't and so takes so long that door-to-door might be quicker via central London.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm hoping that one day they will see the error of their ways and find some way to join HS1 and HS2 so that trains can run from Birmingham through the Channel Tunnel.

Personally I like the suggestion from Buro Happold. Its a great pity it came too late to be of use.

When you posted about this proposal in the main HS2 thread in November it seems to have been quickly rubbished, I don’t think that anything’s changed since:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...r-hs2-discussion.177112/page-117#post-4301423

 

[kevin_roche]

When you posted about this proposal in the main HS2 thread in November it seems to have been quickly rubbished, I don’t think that anything’s changed since:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...r-hs2-discussion.177112/page-117#post-4301423

Sadly, I'm sure you are right.

 

[hwl]

Sadly, I'm sure you are right.

In other news tunneling experts (they are excellent at that) propose more technically difficult tunneling as a solution!
The station bit of Euston isn't too problematic after several redesigns for constructability. The underground grade separated junctions/tunnels to the north to elinimate conflicting moves in the throat are the uncertain bit.

My main reservation is around over optimism for London station dwell times and how many platforms are needed.

 

[Chris Butler]

The station bit of Euston isn't too problematic after several redesigns for constructability. The underground grade separated junctions/tunnels to the north to elinimate conflicting moves in the throat are the uncertain bit.

My main reservation is around over optimism for London station dwell times and how many platforms are needed.

Can you expand on that ... and possibly link to some background ... please ?

 

[hwl]

Can you expand on that ... and possibly link to some background ... please ?

On which bit or bits?